What I am going to show you is new to most, very old hat for me. It doesn't matter the device you use in our forum....there is the potential to possibly modify it...(there are many new devices here which I have not sat down & had the opportunity of looking at
Those I have I believe can be physically modified.This particular topic here for the moment pertains to the n900 /neo900.
People with different devices should not walk away thinking this post cannot pertain to them & their devices.
Success is inevitable for the n900/ neo900 part whether it gets produced...or I finish it it for myself.
The model works & affordable casts in plastics or resins can be done.
After this I intend to turn my attention to other device models.

...it's about options for the n900 and neo900 ..options for a whack of things ...


How About...

So I'm just throwin' this out there...
How about:
1- not just alu as a material option?
2- high density plastics or resin too? ( less likely to:
a- conduct a shock (reducing liabilities)
b- get very hot..
c- metals are strong but have little "give" on
impact..possibly jarring internals.(If there is a choice
I'd rather have a cheap & easily replaceable part
that would crumple on serious collision, absorbing
impact than a bulletproof pristine body with god
knows what mangled damage inside.)
3- better cell reception than a metal body?
4- a fraction of material/ production costs a consequence of the
preceding...
5- blindfolded? (no one else's data or specs, proprietary or open
but my own..I mean)
6- making it just thick enough for..say :
a- 2 battery thicknesses...for say a mugen-esque battery?
b-...the ability to squeak in say.. something the size of
standard usb ports?
c- more gear.
d- if the n900 or neo900 owner was
able to modify the microsd cardslot there would be the
potential for a port there ...so you could pop cards in or out
on the fly without removing the back?
e- Hell there is an Android smartphone out now with a taser
built in...hmm...can we compete and fit something like that
in?...doesn't have to be a taser..per se ..a zip-gun?....naw
too violent....sleeping-gas pellet gun?..something
weirder..POTATO GUN!..THAT is what I want.
7- no glare back?
8- no camera probs at all? So far anyway
hopefully the model once finished won't be “off” at all..
and disturb the cameras view properly through the
shutter. Hmm...gotta foresee as much as possible to
avoid that kinda thing..
9- doing it ...by hand?

Let's make it interesting...allll the preceding & how about in less than 2 days...44 hours actually..(I didn't work the ENTIRE 44 hours BTW) finishing to the rough (4 days ago.) Another 2 weeks (seems long...& it is....it is the truly meticulous work from this point...) & its ready for the final step.

What I do.

I paint, illustrate, make harps, violins, all kinds of hybrids..play as well..acoustic and electrified... & carve...I have worked just about every material there is shy of the radioactive.
I have used cnc equipment, laser cutters, etc....all the cool toys.
I have cast metals, bisq, etc.
I don't do casting anymore...nor do I bother with alll the fancy equipment any longer. Pulled me away from my work.
I like to make things ...not produce.

The prime material & it's benefits.

The 1st art...the 1st tools used by humanity still dug up in fabulous condition from places like stonehenge & the like...
5-10-15- 20 000 yr old tools...very resilient. It can take incredible physic pressures as well as blunt & sharp force impacts eyebrow-raisingly fabulously.
That same 1st material used for direct casting of silver & gold...since it could withstand the heat, retain it's edge without cracking or melting...
It can be cut & shaped to the point it is so thin as to see the fingerprints of your hands through it.
I intend the very moment I can to provide a demo for your viewing pleasure.

I enjoy in my spare time doing period piece work from around 5000 B.C. up to about the 9th century.
I have done and do restoration of items & weapons as old as the 12th century. I've worked on 19th century cane swords.....18th century to the current dated damascus steel (beyond count) ...17th century court swords, flanged maces...list goes on in weaponry alone I have embellished and restored.
At the moment I am working on a (verified of course ) 16th century Scottish cleaver...thing is beautiful.
I digress..


Antler by the way is not bone...it is just tightly growing hair or nails..nothing more.
It just happens to grow so perfectly ...that the grain of it is better than any wood. More resilient and flexible than stone and metal..holds an intricately detailed fine edge...is in essence a fabulous carving material. I have made literally countless pieces...for all kinds of purposes. I have directly cast silver and gold with it even...& retained the original carving with only a slight surface scorching easily removed.

Essentially if a soul can think of a thing with physic properties & dimension it most likely can be made out of antler.
The quintessentially perfect medium for making things, pieces and parts as well...as it just so happens......

Now I must admit I have been doing such work (in antler alone) for more than 35 years....so I have a slight advantage than most.

Depending on environmental stresses on the animal which dictate what I consider to be poor to excellent grades of antler...deer is fine for small pieces..the density tends to be fine for good work. Elk I favour not just for density but the proportionate size of the work that can be done. As well elk tends to a perfect white clean appearance. Moose tends to have a more mottled dirty look & an open grain in compare to either deer or elk ...but is still better than any wood or manmade for it's strengths...I favour moose only to do VERY large work. Consequently what is here below...is a small piece... in moose antler.

My work here fits perfectly.
The whole thing fits together..perfectly. A nice tight fit.
Everything functions properly.
The original photos are timestamped if anyone wishes to doubt me. I was very meticulous in that.... amoungst other aspects.
Yes it is not a back cover...
I saw that as pointless material waste and a waste from many other standpoints. But that is my thinking...
Pragmatically I thought why get rid of the back at all?

If I did a whole back cover I wouldn't stop there...I'd do a complete body replacement.
I have the material.

But I happen to like the body it's got... I do however see the attraction of a thicker middle....for some to have a bigger battery or possibly extra ports... & more gear inside.

The Options...

So this is what I am proposing...it's roughed....finished except for making it smooth for mold making.....( all the spit and polish done in 2 weeks )everyone should discuss whether or not they would like it in plastic or resin...keep the colours simple 1 or possibly 2.. ...ie...black or white. We can tally numbers and IF it seems viable by the number of possible orders...we are a go for mold making and production... (should be anyway...after it has left my hands...saying of course a calamity doesn't happen to Tom Hanks with my package on the Fedex plane...."Wilsonnn!!!"... )...

However If By the 11th of July 2014...one month later...

A- not enough people are interested in it that is cool..really...
B- If a consensus cannot be reached 'tween us fellows ...that's sad, but that's ok....
C- there is argument...& it gets ugly (don't like that...I like everybody happy, laughin' & joking ) ....

= I'll simply call an end to it all..

I'd like mine you see & (honestly.. realistically ..I'm not going to wait forever sooooo that being the case)..I will then enamel the model..& ...well..I got mine... until it needs a fresh coat of enamel...repairs ...or it finally breaks from wear & tear..& then I'll just carve another

If however ...enough people are interested.... hurray! It will get finished & will be ready for mold making. After that ...all that will be needed are the tiny side catches which could be added in the process.


The Next Step

Technically speaking ...moose is my last choice compared with elk or deer for mold making. It is the sheer size alone which makes moose the candidate. I do not expect this particular part to withstand multiple makings of molds even with my foresight in reinforcing it with antler lamination. A certainty is it will withstand multiple cooler mold making processes. 1-2-3 possibly 4. It could handle 1 possibly 2...but no more... very hot mold processes...(for say...metals and the like.) My recommendation is to do the 1st cooler mold...inspect the original & mold upon completion...if it can take it...do a 2nd...stop there...and prepare for 1 hot mold making process...& do not expect it to survive ...if it does...do the hot again.
The more molds the better esp. for different materials.
Worst case scenario it gives us only the 1st mold & gives up, or only 1 mold came out well. Doesn't matter. We still win. From that 1 mold up to 100 copies certainly can be made. 1st gen. The best of those SHOULD be taken and molds made from those immediately AT ALL COSTS.
Then from those molds assembly line production very affordably can commence.
The models purpose is to be the sacrificial goat for the molds. It surviving intact the processes multiple times is neither likely nor expected. If it does...make more molds (backup. store them for future necessity) until it can't take the strain.

Production and material costs should be negligible with casting...

It also doesn't matter the method of copy or reproduction...the necessity of cleaning and polishing the finished product always remains...more finicky & costly depending upon the type of finished material

Understand: this isn't a prototype. Or a one-off.

Understand please I like to make the cool stuff...not produce it. So I won't be doing any casting sorry.

And yes the model is BUTT ugly...to look at...that is the mottled dirty colour of moose for ya...combined with the necessity of the antler laminations. It isn't pretty...but it is smooth surfaced..THAT is relevant since mass produced copies will look and feel like the coloured enamel or plastic or metal that they should.

I was originally going to show what I've quietly been working on...the n900 case I mentioned....but it is far from completion yet...I'm in the process of adorning it with time consuming artistic embellishment in topically relevant detail carving...and when finished was going to unveil it..but I also see the practical needs here of our community and so set aside the case...and moved some of my professional work time for my business clients and patrons around to accommodate the making of this...”sandwich” part.... thus far it has only been 44 hours from start to roughed finish...fine smoothing and prep for the mold work will take 2 weeks at best...must be meticulous..so it is not a huge loss of my time...yet


I have promised nothing ...asked for nothing.
Just delivered the rough model...which shall...crossing fingers all goes well....be finished and ready for mold and cast work in a month

If people want this..then we can talk dollars and cents after I've shouted “alriteythen! Done! Perfect! We are a go!”
I'm not interested in making a mint from this contraption I've made. A humble and modest percentage of the profits would suffice (I do need after all more Work-Beer ...that IS essential...summers here.....keeps my fingers nimble and quick...

I'm not ...and my work isn't cheap...but for this place and all you guys...I'm affordable.
..Until now I have refrained from doing cross-over work from what I professionally do and personally do …..
in creating this and letting it loose here on TMO...and how I comport my business normally is not the same as what I am offering here...let alone here and now...). Making something that is practical and affordable for everyone that can be taken off or put on easily...is something I'm interested in.
Open source?...as open as the skill in my hands which carved it.
Free?...as the deer and the elk and the moose that yearly shed their antlers.

Is it a Better idea than others? Sorry not interested in competing....also the question is too obtuse... that is really a matter of personal desires, wants and perspective.
I think the real issue is about purpose, functionality ...do you lose or gain it, aesthetic, cost, and time to produce.
Can you afford the alu back?
or are your finances super-tight? and you can hopefully, possibly only afford a small amount ?
Is it important to have an alu back?
or full body with the bigger stand ?
or are you happy with what back and kickstand you have now?...
is that an issue for you the individual?
That is what I think it's all about ...nothing more ...personal wishes and preferences.
One or the other? Who said it has to be an either or?
If you have the money...Why not get the alu and the plastic/ resin “sandwich” part? ..
I know I wouldn't mind having both …

Here are the pics.
(Please note the incut on the inside end ..
It isn't a mistake or flaw. It is deliberate. It is easily filled in for a finnicky catch slot...but at the time I wasn't about to ruin my only n900 (backcover catch) in the process of playing around with the making of this.)
























Update: Due to an overwhelming lack of interest in production and my desire to use what I created... ...
the N.C.S. part here...
has been enameled....
making it uniformly the same colour and look of the n900 black body...
perfect for daily use...
but making it now unsuitable for reproduction casting.

This particular mass-production project is terminated.

thanks for the effort. that was way too long. sorry didn't finish reading everything. so you're making a body replacement out of antler? and wants to know if people are interested?

Unfortunately the post is long...It was much longer before condensing it to this...It is long to explain in detail and answer just about every possible question to avoid misinformation. The post is unfortunately long as well to try to illuminate the fact that THIS TYPE OF WORK IS NOT BOUND BY A SINGLE DEVICE MODEL...I believe with this process we can enhance other devices than just the n900/ neo900...the older and the newer here as well...I need to study the physic of devices like the n950..the n9 ...the jolla...I haven't had one in my hands to tell...I have no doubt the n800 and n810 can be enhanced...I have those models and am experimenting with them...for models I have never seen and studied I do not know the extent of enhancement if any can be done....but as can be seen when you take apart a n900..If I can jigsaw puzzle fit a mid section between the back cover and the body...which is no small feat....in less than 2 days...by hand....I do not think that other device's body's would be more complex...rather they will more than likely fit more simply. So...the question for everyone here is....If I could build expansions...say for EVERY model of device in TMO...we get them cast...CHEAP....why it's christmas time then ain't it people? If you can stuff bigger batteries in your current device but the damn back on it won't let you....or you want to stuff more gear in it but can't .....I just may be able to help with that ....See where I'm coming from now?...I won't know until I study everything we got though. But for the moment the n900/ neo900...then other devices.....

There is no replacement body in any photos.
This is not a replacement body....the point is to avoid that...avoid the waste of duplicating what we already have....the point is to be able to have an easily removable middle to expand the thickness of the device...for larger battery...additional ports...etc.
The master is made from antler to take the stresses of the mold making process...retain it's form long enough before it is ghosted by the mold-making process...the antler model is to be the sacrificial lamb for more molds... and then produce in bulk either plastic...high density plastic..or resin or resin (and "other") (it is a "mid-device part "...resting between back cover and body as is clearly depicted in the photos and illuminated thoroughly in the process... in the post)... combinations...at a very affordable price.

There is no way I expect everyone to afford a hand carved original out of antler..let alone a full body hand carved out of antler...but I do expect the richest to the poorest of us here to be able to afford the "sandwich" mid-section made out of plastics, high density plastics or resins....THAT is what I want....everyone able to have this...it shouldn't just be for those who have buckets of money to throw at it....there are enough things like that in the world....for only those that have plenty of money....I'm trying to do away with that philosophy starting with this part.

For those trying to put a monetary value on the original antler part and what they guesstimate it may be worth...once finished...and if any one person could just buy one from me....No no one person can afford it. I can pump them out...but. I won't...my work time is precious ...and I am not an assembly line...My hands and eyes have a finite lifespan of work in them...I have never squandered that.

The value for example of this particular model I have made ..no one person could afford..I consider it pretty much priceless Because selling it to one person would disservice everyone who owns a n900 (and upcoming neo900)...and deny them the same options and opportunities. I can't do that. It's wrong. So we either are able (hopefully ) to develop this for everyone in mind...or it stays with me.

Took a break for a mo. to add....
I imagine I (so far)come across as some kind of mad carving monk on some kinda socialist or communist holy crusade...
I don't want that.
Observe whenever the latest cool tech toy or device or software whatever comes out...I don't think there is a one of us here that can't say we are very much like kids with our joy and our desire over such things...
I myself have seen stuff come and go here and in the marketplace that I wished at the time I could afford...but one thing or another I couldn't.
I know ...sad eh? boo hoo.
In my work I make and work things the wealthy covet...
When I was younger I used to do a lot of exclusive showings and such...(not many do exactly what I do)...
At some there may or may not have been modest or high entrance fees just to get in...regardless...I would see the wealthy ..for sure...but I saw alot of people...alot of families...alot of kids that obviously just didn't have much...the parents having brought them so they could at least see this stuff....At first ...I just would give this kid or that kid at those shows exactly what they eyeballed in my work...you could see they wanted it...but no way the family could afford that...YOU try turning people away..ESPECIALLY kids away because they don't have enough...I could never do it...
(sigh)...that was the prime reason I got into mold making and casting when I was younger...so I could do limited runs of copies ...so sure...the poor family or kid couldn't afford the cost of the time-consuming piece in some odd or unique material...mammoth...narwhal horn..etc...I always made sure they could have an affordable copy of it that looked and felt the same.

I ain't on a crusade....I just could never stand seeing people left out of something....especially if it isn't over ability ...but money.

but if I were..and this was a crusade...

wouldn't this be a good one?

Way big and confusing postmaybe you were weak in summary writing

its not body replacement but way better in some regards Actually the sandwich idea can used for lots of stuff like extra capacity battries full size ports lots of extra gears you can even put in .......:rolley es:.

The then neo900 users can find a lotta usecaces of the extra space maybe even custom boards with extra..............etc etc


its all abbout extra functionality uses just limited by ones imaginations and also super cheap and efficent .......

We are here to discuss on the viablity of such a product intrested people more usecaces sharing ideas and if fesiable laying down plans on the table to move forward .. ;-

well change the title to something more relavent summarised hell maybbe a new thread cannibalised with just the bones

Nothing wrong in being a mad carving monk, rather the opposite! Handcrafting such materials is what did bring us to where we are today.

Sometimes your writings are a bit difficult to follow though, at least for non-english-native speakers as it feels like free association... you use lots of ellipses there... but anyway, I enjoyed your long piece, even the longer one I had time to read before you edited the 2 opening pieces into one

[and nothing wrong also in coming across as socialist or communist either, I think those things are considered some kind of sin or felony on your part of the world, but in europe it's pretty OK...]

I like your idea, endsormeans, I really do,.. since it's great. But I can't get away from the N900 in antler body. Gosh, that'd be f***ing fabulous! Or ivory, even better but waaay more expensive, I guess. But hey, imagine, in couple thousand years archeologists come across an N900 in antler or ivory case... "What do we have here?" Insides will not survive the time challenge, of course, but the case will... Fantastic!

Hehehe the time passage?....replace "archeologist" with "mutated sentient giant cockroach archeologist" saying "What do we have here?"

Ivory is nice...it is beautiful...but it is a brittle material...it isn't as strong and durable...I've worked old ivory...it's all the same..with age it just gets more delicate.
I have beautiful "plates" lengths and "beams" of deer and esp. elk that are china white...slick and beautiful...as lovely as ivory...waiting to be worked....Ivory is nice but there is better for the purposes.
I believe existing ivory should be worked properly...not burned,mulched or destroyed. The poachers should be shot and the elephants left in peace at worst and helped at best. But that is a perfect world and we don't got that yet.
So working old ivory isn't an issue for me. Recent ivory is.
Be that as it may...any endangered species I think should be left in peace...until it dies naturally...then hand me the goods and I'll make something worthy and respectful of the life of that animal.
Extinct species?...Mammoth ! WOO HOO! bring it on baby!
A grand material to work in.

Hmmm...wait for it...
shortly you will wish to see stuff I'll be posting here...

Hehe
You want f***ing fabulous?
How is this...I am going to give a demo of how f***ing fabulous antler really is ...very very soon...

But 1st I am going to post 2 photos shortly which and an exceptionally short (for me even ) write up. Everyone should find that VERY interesting.

Secondly after the understanding you've grok'd from the demo ...
oh my yes you will want an antler mid-section....

After the demo you WILL want an antler full-body...

After the demo you WILL want an antler case....

And...(in my whisper voice here....) you can have ALL 3...hehehe

I won't make an IDENTICAL full body....Why?...It's been done...I'd rather do something different...

"But how then Paul?..." you are supposed to say...(adding before I can respond)..."....you said you wouldn't make a n900 body out of antler....you said you wouldn't mass produce antler bodies at ALL Paul...what kinda **** you pullin' man?..."

To which I say (in an even lower whisper in an even quieter room .. )

"....did you notice (in my atrociously long but relevant explanatory post) my mention of making the "part" out of resin....and specifically out of resin and "other" materials?...."

I will not make a n900 body out of antler...yes...instead I really really really do hope this project ends up as "a go" since it opens up the ability to make not just enhancement attachments for ALL our devices...potentially from the n770 up to the Jolla....BUT AS WELL POTENTIAL FULL BODY REPLACEMENT...(here's my stage whisper again)...out of resin and "other" materials preferably...

You are supposed to say here (dramatically)..."but Paul...what do you mean by making full bodies out of "other" materials and resin?..."

And here is the answer...the joy of modern (for the last 30 yrs) resins in the use of casting has done nothing but become AB FAB in my opinion...15 years ago was the last time I worked with resins in production of copies...

If you want antler cases and bodies and parts you can have them.
If there is enough consensus for their production IN resins...and "other"...yes of course...and pretty cheap too...cheaper than just making said cast out of 100% resin.

Available in almost every northern hemispheric country...it will be imperative wherever production will be occurring...since keeping material acquisition as localized as possible to minimize red tape...it is imperative to find a reindeer (at worst) or (better) deer/ elk farm...buy a whack of antler (much cheaper may be hunting down every antler you can in europe at garage/ estate/ flea market sales ...talking to old hunters...or their widows...they always have a whack of them collecting dust in the attic....make sure they are always properly dried...I do not suggest antler from a fresh hunting expedition...it needs time to dry and to cure.) old antler is best...and there is always lots of it.

Since deer and elk farms raise the animals take the shed antlers grind them up too..mainly for asian demand (supposedly keeps you young and vibrant...aphrodisiac properties...hmmm...THAT accounts for my youthful appearance, excess energy, and mad libido !!! I've been inhaling the stuff for YEARS )...it won't be hard to track ready to use supply down...but the cost may be more....hence my unorthodox suggestion concerning tracking old racks down...yes it may sound odd .....but any single hunter ...young or old or a widow of a hunter could have a dozen or two racks in the garage or attic that they don't mind giving up/ getting rid of / or selling afford-ably ....deadly earnest here...it will be a fraction of what the farms would sell it to us. Trying to gauge how many cases or bodies a rack could make is fruitless...some racks may be small...some large....but a rough middle ground ball-park conservative guess 'tween small and large....would be 10-15 bodies or cases from 1 average mid sized rack of deer.....so....in the 100's or even thousands of cases / bodies...it can be VERY economical.

Get all your antler ground to a fine powder...
As an example of it's ability to "bind" with itself as equally as other things...get abit of the dust wet with water....hell....spit even
when that little bit of powder now dampened ...dries...it will dry seamlessly...as hard if not harder than before. But there is no agent to "hold" it together...
Lo and behold ...the resin.
JUST enough resin..(.it depends on the purity of density of the antler...ie...when you grind up ALL of an antler...you are as well grinding up the porous honey-comb middle or center of the antler...so it all mixes with the more denser outer part of the antler(best part for carving in fact...a few cast attempts with testing antler dust vs resin ratio for EXACTLY the totally and thoroughly mixed antler dust in possesion...by this I mean....don't add new dust to the pile...use up everything in current stock 1st....adding new antler dust to old WILL throw off you resin to antler dust ratio....because invariably the new dust will be more or less dense than your existing supply thereby throwing a monkey wrench into your measurement equation.)...

A few trial and error will get you mix perfect...BUT only to your existing antler dust...for every new batch of dust ...no matter the quantity you will need to test your ratio's again.

You don't want the mix to be too much antler and not enough binding/holding resin....it will be brittle.
You don't want too much resin instead either...or it is then simply more akin to plastic and you gain less of the antler's benefits.
Some where in between ie a ratio of greater than 70% antler (but no higher than 90%) to no greater than 30% resin ( and no lower than 10%) should get the (personal preference really) desired (feel, density, texture etc...for that specific project) perfect ratio for whatever you wish to make ....STRONGER, MORE DURABLE, MORE DAMAGE RESISTANT THAN MY ORIGINAL CARVED OUT OF ANTLER. VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL IN LOOK, FEEL, WEIGHT, DENSITY, TEXTURE... EVERYTHING...IN EVERY WAY THE SAME....JUST BETTER...


Get it?

And yes.... I won't carve a new body...pointless really
And I'll tell you why....
Because whoever is going to do the mold and cast work...could just as easily take an old beater n900 body apart.. make a mold....AND MAKE RESIN / ANTLER bodies far easier and quicker than I could carve it....and I REALLY REALLY REALLY WANT SOMEONE TO DO JUST THAT !!!!
It would be stronger and better than what I could carve.
I want an antler body too.man!....

Get that too?

About the antler case I am artistically fine detail carving...now..
Oh yea man!
Wait until you see it when I unveil THAT puppy!
You will most certainly want it!
(stage whisper again )

"...And if things go well...why ...you could have that too...Made out of antler/ resin ...better than my original ..with ALL the bas-relief carving I have done...."

Get it yet again?

Just wait for the photos...
And the upcoming demo...

BAM!
Feel that man?
That was you gettin hit with a "...you can have your cake, pie, ice cream, donuts AND cookies ....AND eat it too..." Way-Cool Bomb I just hit you with...

Must be some good stufff, maaan!