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matthewcc is offline matthewcc
2009-10-05 , 13:31
Posts: 267 | Thanked: 128 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Somerville MA - USA
#1
While doing my daily blog scanning I came across this piece by Michal Jerz of My-symbian.com ( http://My-Symbian.com/?f=40437 )

"...the n900 nokia removed app manager's support to install local .deb files. this means that - unlike on previous tablets - you no longer can just beam a file to the device via bluetooth, or copy it from pc, or just download using the web browser, and tap on it in the file manager to install it. deb files stored locally on the device are not recognized (not associated with app manager) and tapping on them does nothing. from now on, users are expected to install software via repositories only.

it is said to prevent the user from installing incompatible software, or packages missing required dependencies, etc. but this is a poor excuse. the app manager, like on previous tablets, could check for compatibility and missing dependencies of local .deb files and stop installation of incompatible/broken packages, anyway.

more advanced users will still be able to install local packages using x terminal and e.g. dpkg command (unless they block it too), but it should not be like this and linux newbies won't even know about such a possibility..."
I have not seen much on this topic in the forum, though I assume it is because the majority of readers here would be able to manage to workaround.

If the piece is accurate it could be a bit disappointing unless nokia take steps to encourage competition in the app-store area. I was hoping that I would be able to go to multiple 'app stores' to find the tools i want on my device as well as getting them from friends and colleagues.

My question is how much of an issue is this? Is it technical or cultural or both?
 
Bratag is offline Bratag
2009-10-05 , 13:34
Posts: 2,014 | Thanked: 1,581 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#2
Originally Posted by matthewcc View Post
While doing my daily blog scanning I came across this piece by Michal Jerz of My-symbian.com ( http://My-Symbian.com/?f=40437 )



I have not seen much on this topic in the forum, though I assume it is because the majority of readers here would be able to manage to workaround.

If the piece is accurate it could be a bit disappointing unless nokia take steps to encourage competition in the app-store area. I was hoping that I would be able to go to multiple 'app stores' to find the tools i want on my device as well as getting them from friends and colleagues.

My question is how much of an issue is this? Is it technical or cultural or both?
While I dont think this will be a large issue for most "non tech" users who would as a rule just use the OVI interface to install programs. I do see it as an issue for more tech savvy users and I cannot really see the excuse being offered as valid. Can't say its a deal breaker but it is not the direction I want to see the n900 heading.
 
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zerojay is offline zerojay
2009-10-05 , 13:34
Posts: 2,669 | Thanked: 2,555 times | Joined on Apr 2007 @ Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
#3
Originally Posted by matthewcc View Post
While doing my daily blog scanning I came across this piece by Michal Jerz of My-symbian.com ( http://My-Symbian.com/?f=40437 )



I have not seen much on this topic in the forum, though I assume it is because the majority of readers here would be able to manage to workaround.

If the piece is accurate it could be a bit disappointing unless nokia take steps to encourage competition in the app-store area. I was hoping that I would be able to go to multiple 'app stores' to find the tools i want on my device as well as getting them from friends and colleagues.

My question is how much of an issue is this? Is it technical or cultural or both?
Red pill mode pops up an "Install from File" option in the App Manager. No issue here at all.
 

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ColdFusion is offline ColdFusion
2009-10-05 , 13:36
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#4
You can add as many 3rd party repositories as you want. And for the "grandma" user there's really no sense in installing a standalone .deb.
For everyone else there's dpkg.
 

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pelago is offline pelago
2009-10-05 , 20:16
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#5
I think this change is mainly to encourage people to use repositories (where .debs can be updated later and can grab dependencies) rather than installing random debs. Techies can install .debs using dkpg or red-pill mode if they know what they're doing, so they don't lose out.

Regarding other 'app stores', I assume the web-browser and app-manager will still allow one-click installing through .install files (which add a repository and install a .deb and dependencies in one go).

So overall, I don't think this is Nokia trying to restrict competition for downloading software, just encouraging software to be installed the 'correct' (i.e. via a repository) way.
 

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qgil is offline qgil
2009-10-06 , 04:40
Posts: 3,105 | Thanked: 11,088 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)
#6
Please move this thread to the Maemo 5 forum since this is no hardware related at all. Thanks!

Yes, the ability to install .deb packages directly was removed from the Application Manager GUI and actually Red Pill mode will be removed at some point as well. The reason is simple: pure end users are better off these paths and advanced users should better learn the right way to do these things.

Most end users out there are used to find executable files somewhere and install them directly, without having any notion of a repository or seeing the relevance of the source where you get your software from. The mobile app stores are helping users realizing that having a known source with some QA process is actually a good thing.

If someone really wants to install single deb files he can do it through the usual Debian way.

And because this is an open platform and there are opinions of all kinds, you can also rely on things like http://maemo.org/packages/view/appinstaller/ (haven't tried myself, just saw it the other day and made me recall the day Urho told to Marius and me that he was not very happy about the removal of the deb installation in the HAM UI.
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kamakazikev24 is offline kamakazikev24
2009-10-06 , 06:24
Posts: 40 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#7
From someone new to this platform (soon to be ex iphone 3g user) I can see that it will be a far better way to automatically keep the installed apps up to date.
 
lma is offline lma
2009-10-06 , 07:33
Posts: 2,802 | Thanked: 4,491 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#8
Originally Posted by pelago View Post
So overall, I don't think this is Nokia trying to restrict competition for downloading software, just encouraging software to be installed the 'correct' (i.e. via a repository) way.
Hopefully this will finally convince various app publishers (eg third-party ones like Devicescape, Boingo and Access but also Ovi and Nokia Beta Labs) to set up proper repositories too.
 

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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-10-06 , 07:59
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#9
Originally Posted by lma View Post
Hopefully this will finally convince various app publishers (eg third-party ones like Devicescape, Boingo and Access but also Ovi and Nokia Beta Labs) to set up proper repositories too.
i.e., submit their applications to Extras or distribute through Nokia's catalog.
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lma is offline lma
2009-10-06 , 08:19
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#10
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
i.e., submit their applications to Extras or distribute through Nokia's catalog.
Somehow I don't see Corporation X putting up with the extras-devel -> extras-testing -> minimum 10 days quarantine and wait for karma and votes -> extras bureaucracy (at least that's how it will be perceived). In the commercial world you want your app widely available the moment you reveal it.

But own-hosted repositories are still much better than the current "post a link to a .deb in a web page" situation.
 
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