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| The Following User Says Thank You to shmerl For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-03-28
, 05:11
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Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
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#2
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The article finishes with: "Still, the damage has been done". I disagree.
Admittedly, Nokia's move is a bit desperate - understandable when there is an over-saturation of market with smartphones; Nokia's phones are durable enough that people use them for a long time, instead of buying a new device each year. And despite the well-deserved praise lavished (especially on TMO; ) on Nokia's phones (N8x0, N900, N9, N950, even Lumia occasionally), they are not widely-available, or cheap enough to be adopted en masse.
Without this article, I wouldn't have heard of WebM project for a long time. Nokia's suit attracts attention to WebM project, not only to Nokia itself.
Best wishes.
_________________
Per aspera ad astra...
Admittedly, Nokia's move is a bit desperate - understandable when there is an over-saturation of market with smartphones; Nokia's phones are durable enough that people use them for a long time, instead of buying a new device each year. And despite the well-deserved praise lavished (especially on TMO; ) on Nokia's phones (N8x0, N900, N9, N950, even Lumia occasionally), they are not widely-available, or cheap enough to be adopted en masse.
Without this article, I wouldn't have heard of WebM project for a long time. Nokia's suit attracts attention to WebM project, not only to Nokia itself.
Best wishes.
_________________
Per aspera ad astra...
| The Following User Says Thank You to Wikiwide For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-03-28
, 06:44
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Posts: 2,102 |
Thanked: 1,937 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
@ Berlin, Germany
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#3
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Although i agree with most of the blame Nokia gets from us for their poor, very poor, management, I tend to disagree on that!
1. Google shall make its billions on youtube with content of their users by putting adds on the pages.
2. VP8 is not an open project at all. It was developed behind closed doors by one single company, that google lately bought.
3. VP8 is not GPL licenced, it is just free of charge, and even that is not cemented, but rumored is FRAND usage.
4.You ( atleast, I) could make a strong case for the big "G" is trying to continously gain world domination, by pushing its standards on internet.
5. Their history in dropping projects despite a wide user base is as poor as Nokia's. Just look at the latest reader development.
Nokia vs. Google: There is no 'good' vs. 'bad' in it, just probably much money!
If you are really into it you should read the fosspatents article http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/03/n...p8-patent.html of Florian Mueller, who is kind of 'blamed' in this OSNews article as 'a consultant paid by Oracle and Microsoft', but he is the one to educate them about GPL and stuff.
1. Google shall make its billions on youtube with content of their users by putting adds on the pages.
2. VP8 is not an open project at all. It was developed behind closed doors by one single company, that google lately bought.
3. VP8 is not GPL licenced, it is just free of charge, and even that is not cemented, but rumored is FRAND usage.
4.You ( atleast, I) could make a strong case for the big "G" is trying to continously gain world domination, by pushing its standards on internet.
5. Their history in dropping projects despite a wide user base is as poor as Nokia's. Just look at the latest reader development.
Nokia vs. Google: There is no 'good' vs. 'bad' in it, just probably much money!
If you are really into it you should read the fosspatents article http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/03/n...p8-patent.html of Florian Mueller, who is kind of 'blamed' in this OSNews article as 'a consultant paid by Oracle and Microsoft', but he is the one to educate them about GPL and stuff.
| The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to michaaa62 For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-03-28
, 07:05
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#4
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VP8 is BSD licensed, which is even more permissive than GPL, so I'm not sure what your non GPL argument was about. VP8 is actively developed with participation of Xiph so it is open project.
To note - VP8 is the only open high quality codec suitable for streaming at present. So whatever the intention of Google was, the benefit is obvious - open codec for everyone to use. The only potential alternative could be Daala codec, but it's in early development so it's a non option (yet).
Nokia is obviously playing the vile card here, just showing everyone a jerky behavior, in attempt to disrupt open codec adoption. In this case it's not Nokia vs Google. It's Nokia vs open video, simply because there are no other alternatives.
I wouldn't read anything from Florian Mueller - he has a clear pro patent / pro copyright position, and he was used by Oracle to defend copyrightability of APIs. I'm not really interested in these kind of reviewers.
Last edited by shmerl; 2013-03-28 at 07:10.
To note - VP8 is the only open high quality codec suitable for streaming at present. So whatever the intention of Google was, the benefit is obvious - open codec for everyone to use. The only potential alternative could be Daala codec, but it's in early development so it's a non option (yet).
Nokia is obviously playing the vile card here, just showing everyone a jerky behavior, in attempt to disrupt open codec adoption. In this case it's not Nokia vs Google. It's Nokia vs open video, simply because there are no other alternatives.
I wouldn't read anything from Florian Mueller - he has a clear pro patent / pro copyright position, and he was used by Oracle to defend copyrightability of APIs. I'm not really interested in these kind of reviewers.
Last edited by shmerl; 2013-03-28 at 07:10.
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2013-03-28
, 07:10
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Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
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#5
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Originally Posted by michaaa62
I like Nokia, for creating the smart phones. It may be decisions of Elop and Microsoft which lead to abandonment of mobile-Linux-based-operating-systems, but I still respect Nokia for developing these operating systems in the first place
Although i agree with most of the blame Nokia gets from us for their poor, very poor, management, I tend to disagree on that!
Originally Posted by michaaa62
Agree. Quite distracting. Annoying. I will likely seek an alternative place to watch videos of nature: hedgehogs, mountains, rainbows...
1. Google shall make its billions on youtube with content of their users by putting adds on the pages.
Originally Posted by michaaa62
True. It's not Google's achievement. It's a product which Google has recently bought, seeking to use it for, as you aptly put, 'world domination'.
2. VP8 is not an open project at all. It was developed behind closed doors by one single company, that google lately bought.
Originally Posted by michaaa62
Yes, it rubs me the wrong way, too. VP3 was released into public domain, and Mozilla later created Theora from it. Cannot something similarly open happen to VP8, too? And about rumours: Google's announcement.
3. VP8 is not GPL licenced, it is just free of charge, and even that is not cemented, but rumored is FRAND usage.
Originally Posted by michaaa62
Agree. I dislike them. Fortunately, I no longer use Google Maps. I use OpenStreetMap, and sometimes Bing satellite. Gmail is harder to quit, though. Fortunately, Wikinews are more interesting than Google News - especially if you visit Wikinews in several different languages. And Google Books don't have much potential, not with their uncomfortable interface and annoying "Preview! Limited number of pages available." messages. Gutenberg, and some other places, are better.
4.You ( at least, I) could make a strong case for the big "G" is trying to continuously gain world domination, by pushing its standards on internet.
Originally Posted by michaaa62
I have heard of this, but I don't even know exactly what Google Reader was.
5. Their history in dropping projects despite a wide user base is as poor as Nokia's. Just look at the latest reader development.
Originally Posted by michaaa62
Probably. But I still cheer for Nokia.
Nokia vs. Google: There is no 'good' vs. 'bad' in it, just probably much money!
Originally Posted by michaaa62
Interesting. Going to read now. Thank you.
If you are really into it you should read the fosspatents article http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/03/n...p8-patent.html of Florian Mueller, who is kind of 'blamed' in this OSNews article as 'a consultant paid by Oracle and Microsoft', but he is the one to educate them about GPL and stuff.
Best wishes.
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2013-03-28
, 07:10
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Posts: 1,523 |
Thanked: 1,997 times |
Joined on Jul 2011
@ not your mom's FOSS basement
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#6
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Ack'd Micha, but Mr. Mueller already IS widely regarded as a troll, for many previous case records.
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2013-03-28
, 07:30
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Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
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#7
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Originally Posted by shmerl
What about Dirac? Dirac Pro was used internally by the BBC to transmit HDTV pictures at the Beijing Olympics in 2008. The BBC does not own any patents on Dirac. They previously had some patent applications with plans to irrevocably grant a royalty-free licence for their Dirac-related patents to everyone, but they let the applications lapse. In addition, the developers have said they will try to ensure that Dirac does not infringe on any third party patents, enabling the public to use Dirac for any purpose. Or is it out-of-date by now?
VP8 is BSD licensed, which is even more permissive than GPL, so I'm not sure what your non GPL argument was about. VP8 is actively developed with participation of Xiph so it is open project.
To note - VP8 is the only open high quality codec suitable for streaming at present. So whatever the intention of Google was, the benefit is obvious - open codec for everyone to use. The only potential alternative could be Daala codec, but it's in early development so it's a non option (yet).
And, Daala is the next generation video codec developed by the Xiph.Org Foundation intended to for use cases similar to those of VP9 and h.265.
Of the current open, GPL-licensed video codecs, there are also Huffyuv and its fork Lagarith. Xvid is GPL-licensed, but has patent issues. Theora is well established as a video format in open source applications, and is the format used for Wikipedia's video content.
In short term, Google's action is benevolent. But in long term, it's going to create a lock-in, akin to current video-served-as-Flash, since all the websites will decide to serve content in this one format. In long term, it would have been better to have a diversity of formats, open and close, and let the end-user and the content-server negotiate which one of a wide selection of formats is preferable. Just my opinion.
Best wishes.
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2013-03-28
, 07:43
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#8
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Dirac is good for storing video, but not efficient for streaming and real time communication, so it's not an option. Theora is inferior to H.264 in quality and VP8 really is the only open alternative as of now. So lock in or not lock in - what other open options are there? None. If Daala would emerge - there will be more. Also, hardware accelerated decoding always lags behind in adoption. Even for VP8 it's not widespread yet. So for any other newcomer it will be even more scarce.
About codecs - it's not just the license of the encoder/decoder or availability of open source versions (H.264 has open source encoders/decoders). It's about royalty free usage with that.
Last edited by shmerl; 2013-03-28 at 07:47.
About codecs - it's not just the license of the encoder/decoder or availability of open source versions (H.264 has open source encoders/decoders). It's about royalty free usage with that.
Last edited by shmerl; 2013-03-28 at 07:47.
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2013-03-28
, 08:53
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#10
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Free as in open requires royalty free usage. Open source implementations alone don't guarantee that. I thought it's all quite basic, I'm not sure what you are arguing about.
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| Tags |
| codecs war, google, google bad, nokia, nokia good |
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They are becoming complete trolls.