in another thread, Architengi posted:

i have to admit i hadn't known this. video editing is one of the features i use most on my current S60 phone. i find it very easy, the few things i actually want to do i can do almost easier on the phone than on the desktop.

i would have assumed that, because my phone is 3rdFP1, each and every newer model would of course have video editing, too. maybe even improved.

why does nokia drop features as they move to newer versions of S60? there was something else i once read my phone had but newer models don't. i think it had something to do with maps/navigation.

is there a line of phones that will still have decent software? (eventually i'll have to buy a new phone.)
is there any 3rd party video editor out there that's any good?
is there any strategy in what nokia does?

The strategy of nokia is: never, never do the perfect phone.
So people, including myself, go on getting newer models but won't ever be fully satisfied.
I've seen this in the Communicators line, but E series and N series seem to follow this same simple rule.

Well, my 5800Xm still has video editing, and is one of the last phones shipped by Nokia.

The most painful regression was when the Communicator line lost series 80 firmware to drop to series 60. Farewell to copy text from browser, to multiple menus, to the majority of shortcuts.
It used to be a small computer, it turned out to be a bulky phone

Yes, the latest S60 devices do have video editing (5800, N97 etc.), although it's a different (simpler) version of that feature.

oh... so the claim that video editing has been removed on newer models is only half true: some models still have it, only in a slighty worse variation.

thank you for this information. (i have to admit i don't care enough about phones... i wouldn't know where to look or ask for this info outside this forum.)

now that they make something "simpler" is, of course, unfortunate, but still better than nothing.

the models i'd be interested in are the 6710 navigator and the 6720 classic. any info on these 2?

and: what exactly is "simpler"? i usually cut clips, add clips to a video, add still images to a video, add effects (fade to black etc) between clips of a video and finally sometimes reduce the size of the final video for MMS or mail transfer. - is this "simple" or does the simplified version lack any of these functions?

oh yes, and: is there any 3rd party video editor anyone could recommend? this is really something i'd pay for if it works.

Quoting Allaboutsymbian (I haven't tried this myself): "4. An options menu will appear asking what kind of editing you would like to do. Choose "Merge" to combine the selected video with another video or image file, choose "Change Sound" to add a soundtrack using a sound file currently on your phone, choose "Add Text" to add text at the beginning or end of the video, or choose "Cut" to trim the video down to a smaller size. The "Cut" option uses a very simple editing tool where you drag a green indicator to where the video should begin, and the red indicator to where it should end."

So it's pretty basic, but yes, adding clips, trimming clips, adding a sound track, adding text. No effects.

/me presses virtual [Thanks!] to increase ragnar's S60-karma.

I'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish. This comes up again and again on All About Symbian and it's always just as ridiculous. You only have to apply a bit of common sense to see how ridiculous it is.

Why on earth would a customer not being satisfied with a Nokia encourage them to buy more Nokias?

Surely people who aren't satisfied with a product would just switch to another brand? If you don't like Coke you buy Pepsi instead, you don't start buying other Coke products in the hope that they taste better.

I agree that Nokia and other device manufacturers deliberately leave stuff out on cheaper models in order to segment the market, but this conspiracy theory that there's a "perfect" phone being held back ranks right up there with cars that run on water.

I also agree that new features are continually being added to phones, but that happens due to new technologies being made available on a commercial scale. The manufacturers aren't deliberately holding stuff back, they simply wouldn't have the ability to add those features to a viable product. Features might exist in prototypes and as separate devices, but there's a world of difference between separate devices and embedded features. (For example 10 years ago there were GPS receivers but it would have been impossible to embed GPS receivers in a mass production phone due to cost, size and power issues. Nowadays GPS is available even in cheap compact models with small batteries, but that's due to small cheap power-efficient GPS chips becoming available from suppliers.)

In any case, what exactly would this "perfect" phone be?

If you add every possible hardware and software feature you'll end up with something horribly expensive that hardly anyone can afford to buy. But even that wouldn't be a perfect phone.

Who exactly is a perfect phone meant to be for? My parents just use their phone for calls, texts and photos, so most other features would be a waste of money for them. Their "perfect" phone would be something that just did calls, texts and photos, so for them any additional features would be seen as a total waste of money. Even technology nerds can suffer from this problem, for example the hugely expensive N96 has a DVB-H receiver which most tech journalists labelled a waste of money as so few countries have DVB-H services. So leaving certain features out can actually make a phone more attractive to its users.

Even if cost wasn't an issue, how would you combine features that cannot be combined, e.g. how do you simultaneously make a compact phone with a large QWERTY keyboard? Or an ultra-thin phone with the highest quality camera? (The highest quality cameras require a certain physical distance between the lens and receptor so they cannot be used in the thinnest phones.)

What about form factors, how would you make a phone that was simultaneously a clamshell, slider and monoblock, both with and without a touchscreen? What if someone wants a phone that is both matt plastic and glossy steel? At some point a choice has to be made that makes a phone attractive to some but unattractive to others.

And even if a perfect phone was possible, why isn't ANYONE making it right now? Nokia isn't the only phone maker, why isn't Samsung or S-E or LG or Moto or Apple making a perfect phone? Why are all of their phone models imperfect in some way?

If designing and developing each model involves X amount of money, and people only buy one phone at a time, why would any manufacturer want to artificially create demand for many models?

The real reason for "imperfect" phones isn't a conspiracy to manipulate the market but a mixture of wanting to keep production costs down, wanting to offer a choice of models for different kinds of user, and the fact that some features are in direct conflict with each other (such as thinness and camera quality).

No one wants to tap into the "I'll buy all the phones to get all the features" market because that kind of market is tiny and limited to a small number of tech enthusiasts. In the real world most people only buy one phone at a time, and they judge how good a manufacturer is by that phone and that phone alone.

The biggest flaw in the "perfect phone" conspiracy theory is Apple. Apple only makes one phone model at a time, so why are there so many gaps in their phone specs? Why is their camera only 3 megapixels when other makers have 8mp and 12mp models? Why don't they offer a memory card slot? Why isn't there multitasking? Why isn't there flash support in the browser? Other manufacturers have these, why don't Apple? Apple have no other models on the market, so they can't possibly be trying to encourage sales of other models, yet they release a "non-perfect" phone as their one and only model. Why would they release an imperfect phone if a perfect phone was possible?

Krisse you are right in many aspects. I am wondering about Apple's tactic when it comes to the iphone in particular. Some of the things which the 3 GS lacks are things that have been implemented in different phones for years now such as flash in the browser and true multitasking. The processor and battery life seem to be pretty optimized now. If they released a phone that did multitasking and had a higher spec camera (5mp+) with a led flash as well as implementing the bits of webkit that enable flash some would call it close to a perfect touchscreen smartphone. They could sell this device for 2 to 3 years and rely more on profits from software/itunes and their deals with carriers to generate revenue while reducing manufacturing costs.

This would emulate more the model of game console companies who use the same hardware for 5 year cycles and they seem to have good profitability. Apple has created a strong platform by making their hardware backwards compatible unlike Nokia who seem to break compatibility with each successive generation of s60 and so far maemo too.

And to remain on topic I use the s60 video editing all the time it is simple and quick to use, I am going to pick up an N97 this weekend I think to give it a test run hopefully the video recording is good.