Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I dug up some interesting info on the N810 GPS chipset by examining gpsdriver ('strings /usr/sbin/gpsdriver'):

1) gpsdriver repeatedly references 'GPS5300'. This is a "lowest cost" GPS chipset made by Texas instruments for mobile phones. See this link for example:

http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...+OT+navilink_4

So it appears that N810 does NOT have a SiRF Star III chip after all. This is bad news for N810 owners, as no amount of software changes by Nokia will help the 2+ minute aquisition times. You can also forget about WAAS.

2) Internal GPS is controlled via /dev/ttyS0.

Thoughts? I hope someone can prove me wrong regarding SiRF Star III.

Edit: It has been confirmed that N810 indeed has a TI 5300 GPS chip.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

BTW, this is the same chipset as found in Nokia E90.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I truly hope you're wrong about that. The built in GPS was a significant part of my decision to buy this thing. Hopefully somebody can come up with a logical explanation of why you're seeing what you are. I don't know enough about the hardware to even try though.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I too decided to buy n810 because of GPS capability.
However after trying 2 units and having very slow results locking on I decided to return.
I feel if you are paying for a feature it should work.
I ordered an Asus EEE and love it.
It does a better job at web browsing than N810.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

How's the GPS in your Eee? :D

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

He must have very big pockets, too.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

My point is your paying for GPS in n810 and it is crap.
Asus EEE was $130 less and performs better at browsing.
I have a Garmin Nuvi so EEE without GPS is not issue.
I wanted a second GPS source however N810 does not warrant keeping for a sub par feature.
Keep trying Nokia. Maybe someday they will have a product worth buying.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

They already are. N800 + i-blue is a fantastic browsing and GPS combination, and it's cheaper than the Eee.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I was merely commenting on the fact that you apparently have seen the light: Convergence devices are almost never an improvement.

That's one of the reasons why I'll never buy a N810.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Nokia has plenty of products worth buying, including the N810. You don't like it? Boo hoo.

While I also like the eeeeeeeh? as a browser/email device I can leave lying around, one can't easily compare it with the N810. Different use-cases, different capabilities, etc. I'll take the N810 over and Eee anytime when I'm out in the car or walking about and the Eee when I'm sitting out in the garage.

Having gone through a few revs of the GPS software on the N95 and seeing the current state of the N810 software I'm not surprised that it isn't ready for prime time yet. It will probably eventually reach a usable state. Of course if you are the kind of person that needs GPS then you might want to go with a nice philosophy-major-friendly device like a Tom-Tom.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I hope so :-) TI themselves say "High performance: The GPS5300 NaviLink 4.0 solution enables a rapid time to first fix (TTFF) from weak satellite signals, exceeding the GPS requirements for 3GPP and 3GPP2 operation."

Anyone has the 3GPP specs and knows if there is a TTFF requirement mentioned inside?

I only found this tidbit from 2000, related to A-GPS as supported by the chipset: "[Without the assistance information] the Time-to-First-Fix (TTFF) could be in the range of 20-45 seconds."

That would be acceptable :D Currently, it is too slow for me.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Well Nokia does not sells the N810 stating it's a "GPS device". It sells it as a companion for your laptop that ALSO does GPS.
They don't sell it as TomTom or Garmin or Magellan do.
So there is no point in complaining about that.

If I would have looked for a good GPS than I would have looked for specific GPS products.
I do use GPS maybe twice a year and sometimes just for fun.. why would I need an expensive GPS chip ?

By the way, my 29€ bluetooth GPS receiver took almost half of an hour to get its very first fix (while my N810 took less than 5 mins!).
True, my 29€ bt GPS receiver takes few seconds to get a fix if I turn it off and on (within few hours from turning it off), while the N810 still takes its 5 mins EVERY time I try to get a fix.
But, for me, it far more than acceptable.

Note: "for me"

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Is this a fact? I thought E90 had SiRF II?

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I've actually gone and bought the Wayfinder software (one born every minute I hear you say).

But seriously, apart from the initial 2-3 min (for me) delay as I set up in the car, I find that it performs well. I'm hopeing the initial startup time is improved, but it does seam to do a good job once it has got a lock.

Done over a 1000 miles with it now and on the whole I'm quite happy. Love having the Traffic updates included. Works a treat. Though they really do need to update the Speed Camera Database. It seams to spot the ones that are there, but there seam to be loads of false alerts as well. From previously removed devices I assume.

Zuber

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

For me it also does a decent job. However, startup time could be improved using maybe some other information like current broadcast cell the phone is in or so.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

This pointer clearly states that the GPS is a ti 5300.

http://maemo.org/community/wiki/noki...specification/

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I've been seriously considering the eePC, but without Bluetooth capabilities, I'm not able to get online as easy as I do with my N800 since there aren't that many WiFi access points on the go, e.g. while having my lunch at a fast food restaurant, waiting for my wife at the airport, checking for specifications at various car dealerships or at the garage, etc

Plus, from personal experience, with WiFi running, I've only managed to get 2 hours of battery life off an eePC while online browsing and getting my emails done. I'm able to pull off a good 4 hours or so off my N800.

That said, when it comes to document creation and composing lengthy email replies, I'd be more inclined to get the eePC.

The eePC will become a feasible alternative for me once they get the following sorted out:

- Bluetooth DUN
- Expansion battery packs (hot swappable, for a maximum of 6 to 8 hours on a single charge, or at least 4 to 6 hours online)

I've only managed to tinker about with the eePC for a day. it's a good idea, but it won't replace my N800 until the two points above are sorted out.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Not to confuse CHEAP with "Best bang for the Buck"...

TI introduced the industry's first single-chip assisted global positioning system (A-GPS) solution in 90 nanometer (nm) process technology for mobile phones. A-GPS enables consumers to connect to a satellite from their mobile phone to get directions and maps to the nearest ATM or store, find friends who may be nearby and location information in emergency situations. Through TI'sinnovative DRPTM technology, the GPS5300 NaviLink™4.0 single chip offers the smallest system area for a discrete GPS solution, lowest total system cost, low power consumption and high performance A-GPS functionality.

"A-GPS capabilities are becoming a must-have feature for 3G mobile phones in many regions around the world,"said Marc Cetto, general manager of TI'sMobile Connectivity Business. "A low bill of materials, small size, low power and high performance are fundamental requirements to drive A-GPS penetration in mobile phones, all of which TI delivers with the GPS5300 NaviLink4.0 solution."

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

The snag is that A-GPS needs cell data from a mobile phone. Has anybody figured out whether the needed information is accessible through a public standard interface? If not, that would restrict it to Nokia telephones.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

well, according to the wikipedia article,

All you need is some kind of connection to an assistance server. It doesn't necessarily have to be on a cell phone network.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

But in order for A-GPS to work the connection server must know roughly where you are. If your N810 knows the GPS coordinates of the WiFi access point you are connected to then it might help the assistance servers pin point your location but normally the cellular network base stations provide this information every time, making it a much more reliable method.

Perhaps OS 2008 can establish a connection to a cell phone over Bluetooth and use the cell phone to obtain the necessary A-GPS details, passing the base station information to the assistance server over WiFi (if WiFi is available) or alternatively over the cellular network itself. Chances are though the required information won't be available from the phone itself. :(

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

This seems possible and is what I was thinking as I read the thread.

After using my N82 for a couple of months (that has A-GPS), I got spoiled with the quickest locks I've ever had. I actually got my LD-1W back out to use with the N810 after waiting over 5 minutes and not getting a single satellite.

You can set up the N810 to use a mobile's GPS over BT, but it wasn't as immediate as I had hoped with my N82. Maybe I'll try again.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Using the GPS coordinates from the N82 is possible with a tablet?

If so that's great because the N95 (bigger, bulkier relation to the N82) never supported the SIP profile which meant it was impossible to export the N95s GPS coordinates to an external device such as a Nokia Internet Tablet. I presumed the N95 was intentionally hobbled because Nokia didn't want their GPS enabled smartphones cannibalising their handheld GPS modules.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

A thought... Perhaps things can be modified to save the last position recorded by the GPS? It wouldn't work for cases like a long airplane trip, or driving across a state and then turning the GPS on, but it probably would be sufficient for what is most likely the common usage case: Take it out of the car, go into a shop or other building, come back out sometime later, turn GPS back on.

Now that I've got my N810 (no developer discount though, I didn't think to apply), I can dig into the GPS a little bit and see if anything can be done. Hot-start over Bluetooth would be pretty cool.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Has anyone discussed acquisition times while the N810 is on the charger versus off? I can only report my unscientific findings; however, my N810 usually gets a fix within 5 minutes while in my house if it is connected to the charger. Once acquired, it maintains the fix after I remove the charger.

This compares to 30-60 minutes required to get a fix while in my house when it is off the charger.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Search the threads -
I know I've reported on times to acquire - I don't think it's ever taken an hour, but maybe I just did not leave it long enough.
If I step outside with it:
And it has had that position recently
And I don't drive or walk with it
Acquisition is under a minute usually

And it has had that position recently
And I drive or walk with it
Acquisition is about 5 minutes usually

And if it has been moved a significant distance (Virginia to Kansas)
And I don't drive or walk with it
Acquisition may take 5 to 15 minutes

And if it has been moved a significant distance (Virginia to Kansas)
And I drive 70+mph down the interstate with it
Acquisition may take 15 to 20 minutes.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

This appears to be done at the moment. Take a look at the files stored in /var/lib/gps/ and at the output of gpsdriver (start it in an xterm, then start maemo mapper or something else which uses the gps).

Simon

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I'd also like a "recall last route or address" feature in the software, for temporary use. I need to submit that properly...

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Someone (RogerS or Reggie I think) posted recently that a third-party tool enables the N95 to share its GPS functionality.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Not necessarily, if I've understood correctly -- approximate location helps, but just getting the almanac data over internet should speed first fix quite a lot.

I just tried this with libgammu (not on the tablet, but on a linux laptop. Should work just the same on tablet). We have three phones in the house and I could coax one of them, the newest Nokia, into telling this over bluetooth:

Country: 244
Network: 05
Local area code: 232D
Cell id: 0603

Could be that the others would work too if I figured the right settings...

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

This may be a coincidence. I don't see any difference with my N810.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Could someone please post the size of their /var/lib/gps/nvd_data file?

ls -la /var/lib/gps/nvd_data

It looks like this file contains the GPS almanac. On my device, this file looks truncated -- there is information for only 6 satellites (?)

The size of my file is 23898 bytes.

Thanks!

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

My file is the same size. It may only contain the last set of active satellites.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

Mine is also 23898 bytes. I've tried connecting on different days (i.e. I should be seeing different satellites), and the file always remains the same size, and has the same headings. The data does change though, so there's something going on there (i.e. it's not *just* the customer config data that gspdriver talks about).

Also note that the gps_last_saved_report file is 14000bytes long, which is quite large for a file which need (presumably) only save the lat and long coordinates. Therefore it may be that this file stores the alamnac/ephemeris data.

Another thing to note is that this latter file is mostly filled with 0x00; seems strange to write lots of 0x00 to a file when not writing them would achieve the same end. Perhaps waiting for some kind of upgrade/enable to write useful almanac/ephemeris data?

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

I am a newbie - just got my 810 this week.

Is it possible for the 810 to offer GPS services over BT to say a laptop or WinCE PDA?

I use Delorme street atlas (not a lot but sometimes) and would like to be able to use this as the GPS. The delorme product is $US 39 and it includes navigation and lots of useful features. Rather than pay $US 139 for a couple year license for the navigation, I would want to use this as a GPS to what I already have. I have asked Delorme if they plan to support this platform but no answer as of yet.

Does this make sense or is my Earthmate GPS far superior to the chip in the 810. I bought the 810 for other reasons and the GPS would be very nice to have....

regards,

Eric

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

The $50-$70 bluetooth GPS units (51 channel, sub minute acquisition) are all better than the n810. Your earthmate probably is too.

The n810 isn't bad, but it is slow starting, only does 1Hz output (v.s. 5Hz on many newer units), and doesn't include WAAS/EGNOS for higher accuracy. The GPS chip is low power, but the rest of the n810 would be on draining the battery.

So although it is possible (to export the internal GPS via bluetooth, etc.), any existing GPS is likely to be better.

Re: Details about the GPS chip in N810
 

thanks.. I will look into a new unit.

just for kicks how would one go about exporting the GPS to bluetooth. As I said I am new and am just fooling around with the N810 at this point.

regards,