Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

Stumbled across this today:
http://www.streamingcolour.com/blog/...rutal-honesty/

I do know you cannot compare download stats from downloads.maemo.org to those of the thing store for more than 1 reason. But on the other hand... Wow! Only 131 copies sold worldwide in one whole month? If you're not into making money but get your kicks from high download stats, developing for the N8x0 might be the better path to go: less competition, more downloads for sure ;)

(I picked a random application that I think is available for DL roughly one month: AlmostTI. 1680 downloads, 12x as many as the jPhone application. And it's a calculator!)

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

Well, the guy makes another color matching game, for $32k (!), then attempts to sell it for $5 apiece at the app store overcrowded by other similar products. He then complains that the game has not paid for itself. Hasn't he seen it coming?

Anyways, for anybody going to repeat his feat, a few pieces of advice:

1. Do not waste money on a project which has no clear and sure business strategy to make more money than you spend. I.e. p0rnosites and online gambling are a go, but $32k color matching games are not.

2. Do not expect that charging a really small price (i.e. $5) will make more people buy your product. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but it will not.

3. Do not expect that charging a really small price will prevent people from pirating your product. It will not.

4. Do not expect that offering a free demo version will make people buy your product. Mobile apps are downloaded and used casually, so once a person downloads and checks out your demo for a few minutes, it will be put away never to be used again.

5. Do not market through app stores, Apple's, Handango's, etc. Once your product enters an app store, it is lost among hundreds of other products, never to resurface again after the few first days. Meanwhile, you are being charged 30% rates. Marketing through your own web site and using a generic credit card processing company is just as effective (or more effective).

6. Create the buzz. Continue creating the buzz constantly. Update your product weekly. Keep a blog. Pester reviewers. As long as your product is in the news, people will come and buy it.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

The App Store suffers from a quantity problem. The search engine sucks. Its very difficult to find the right application in there. And its mostly ****ing games.

7) Develop an application which is better than competition. Make sure it wins in compares. (Buzz.)

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

Ans the maemo download site is better??

It is comparing apples and oranges regrdless, limited number of open source/free apps for a device with a limited userbase to commerical apps on a commerically run store for a mass market device.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

It sure is. Anyway, I liked the numbers. ;)

... I still have to think about this. My assumption always was that because the number of devices sold is so different, even a very unsuccessful commercial jPhone app would have masses of downloads compared to a very popular, free Maemo-app. This, at least, seems to be wrong.

Also, you have to take into account that while on the Apple-side the store-statistics pretty much cover all downloads for an application offered there, figures on downloads.maemo.org aren't necessarily complete. The *.deb could be floating around everywhere on the web, hosted by the author on a separate homepage or whatever, so the counter at maemo.org says something like "at least xxx copies sold downloaded".

What do I make of all this? Nothing. It's nonsensical statistics. But at least now I know that publishing a good Maemo application has a potential of being more rewarding (in terms of ego, karma and such, not in terms of money) than publishing an average application for the jPhone.... which I didn't believe before.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

no, but i pitty the android people, as the recent dev phone update allows the iphone people to go "told you so!"...

and when people first get that chance related to a apple product, they will never stop doing so...

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

And again it comes down to the open source mindset vs commercial. I develop the bulk of my software to pay bills and feed my family, not for a rewarding karma experience. To each their own. The Apple App Store is not a license to print money, some have managed to make it so but the majority wont, it comes down to making good software and promoting it like on any other platform.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

Not sure which one is better. I don't think such pissing contests are useful; I think its good to observe the good aspects of each other and learn from each other. IMO there are some nice applications in both. And quite some crap in both as well. Point is that finding software in the App Store is difficult. As a non-gamer I don't want to see games. But I cannot do this on either platform. There is also the jailbreak issue. Localisation is an issue too. Developers assume an applications is only meant for iPhone 3G. Or that all users are from USA. I'm quite unimpressed with the number of applications specially designed for my country whereas if I need to find software for Nokia N810 I visit this forum, use APT, or Gronmayer. Or Google. Either way, updating software on either platform is much more easier than on S60. Or MacOSX (except official Apple updates). I don't like that I cannot evaluate software from App Store. I do like that the App Store is finger-friendly. I like about Application Manager than I can control my APT repositories. On iPhone/iPod touch I must jailbreak and install Cydia to use APT. But, Cydia is finger-friendly. As you can read I see a lot of + and - on both sides.

Regarding commercial software. Commercial software is NOT the same as commercial/proprietary software. I, for one, very much welcome commercial open source software development. And proprietary software development for Maemo. But preferably either free/commercial open source software.

BTW, it is very childish to call names on a product. The product is called iPhone. Its confusing too. jPhone is Java phone is Android??

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

;) thank god i have a boring day job I hate wholeheartedly and can't write software at all, so it's my personal luxury to keep an illusion of a perfect free software world.

I do see your point, though. And still... not being able to make money from Maemo apps the way you can from jPhone apps is not really because of the platform as such (sales figures aside). It's because there's no low-barrier infrastructure that lets you try and upload your (closed, non-free) software for sale. You'd need to do everything yourself, billing, legal questions, technical infrastructure, advertising,...
Just because Maemo is mostly open and free doesn't mean I as a Maemo user am not willing to pay for applications. (I even payed for my copy of Windows Vista and MS Office although I never use them - except to run software that Nokia is unable to provide for GNU/Linux, such as the software I need to update or backup my phone. I'm one of those people...)

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

You might be able to save some money by buying Codeweavers' Crossover Office and using it to install Windows-only apps. I've been amazed at how they've made it "just work". My wife needed IE6 & ActiveX to upload photos to the local photo printing shop, and so I used Crossover Office to install it; it runs flawlessly under Ubuntu. It also does MS Office very well, too. I got my copy free, during the Lame Duck Challenge last year, but even when it isn't free, it's only $40. And they have a free trial period to see if your software works.

And I must admit, I like seeing the big numbers beside my project on maemo.org...

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

I do not think the difference here comes from the free/commercial app distinction. According to a few articles I have seen recently, free iPhone apps are not doing well either at AppStore.

IMHO, it comes down to having a store with endless shelves: you can stick zillions of products there but only a chosen few will be actually visible to customers. Search capabilities do not help either, as compulsive buyers do not search.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

Hmm well sometimes there is a free application and a pro application. The pro costs money and has some advanced features. The free serves as a demo. Sometimes the free is crippled in functionality.

I believe what matters is that the tool is needed and that it exists. If you market it outside the App Store well that is wise, and mouth to mouth works too.

The search does suck though. It goes further than keywords. If you look at the categories that is all there is. There is no further sorting while when I go to Freshmeat.net I can easily browse the big database on several aspects. Operating system, license -- you name it. But also the purpose of the software is more fine-grained.

For example, consider this: remote administration. You could have this under networking and include telnet, ssh, rdp, nx, citrix clients and servers in this section. As it grows you tag the software based on: 1a) client 1b) server 1c) proxy/other. 2a) OSI 2b) non-OSI 3a) protocol encrypted 3b) protocol non-encrypted 4a) proprietary protocol 4b) free protocol 5a) platform independent/cross platform 5b) windows 5c) *nix 5d) macosx 6a) ssh protocol 6b) telnet protocol 6c) rdp protocol 6d) vnc protocol 6e) other. The misc/other can be further expanded if demand is there. Right now the demand is there to allow users to find a useful tool for a specific purpose. I did this of the top of my head. I'm pretty sure Freshmeat.net and Debian are a good reference for this.

If its only there for compulsive buyers then I don't think the platform has a long-term sustainable purpose, nor will it ever increase in quality.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

On a related note, what are your impressions about the recently announced http://store.ovi.com ? This is more a discussion for a new thread, though.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

It is marked as "Coming soon" for me. I do not expect it to be any different from other app stores, or Nokia's previous attempts on app stores (Nokia Download, N-Gage). Several things I expect to happen though:

1. Limitations on types of applications to be published.
2. Difficult submission process for developers.
3. Once application is in, it gets lost among other applications.

or alternatively:

3. There is just a few applications from vendors who are large/persistent enough to get them in.
4. The phone-side software is buggy and difficult to use (see Nokia Download).
5. Majority of "free" applications are actually demos aggressively trying to make you spend money on them (see Nokia Download).

Whether any of the above items come true or not remains to be seen, but there is a big probability for that.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

http://store.ovi.com says it's "coming soon".

There's not one single service on Ovi.com that works for me (or works as expected), so expectations are low (or even a bit lower). As somebody who is not really a Nokia fanboy, but has a lot more sympathy for the company than the average customer (because it always delivered products that exactly met my requirements... some sort of thankfulness, maybe), I feel really bad watching them fail so pompously with an effort they say is crucial for their business strategy. :(

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

There is precious few applications you actually need on a phone. The rest are all novelty items, to be picked and immediately dropped by compulsive buyers browsing the app store.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

I can't use Ovi Store yet.

Its not a traditional 'phone'; its a smartphone. 'Need' is also very relative (you need a shelter, water, clothes and optionally food to survive; but a phone is a damn practical tool in our age). There are tons of applications which are useful on a mobile device ('phone' or something else with 24/7 connectivity).

A browser, a RSS feed reader, an e-mail client, a SSH client, a twitter client, an IM client and tons of widgets or applications which parse data such as Trein. They're all applications specifically made for the mobile device; not 1 on 1 ports. They're optimized for usage on the mobile phone (less data available, less resources available, limited resolution, possibly touch screen or different keys, and so on). Then there are tons of purposes for accelerometer, camera, GPS. Such as scanning a barcode, a shoplist, navigation, speedcam alert, finding the nearest [fill in]. Not all these features are included in the last firmware of a Nokia or Apple phone. Just like a standard Windows or Ubuntu or MacOSX installation requires additional software.

Now, how to find this software? There are 2 ways: you suggest to the user 'try this out'. That is like commercials. You can also allow the user to find what they want. In that regard the user has some ideas. For example he's searching for something which allows him or her to use a remote computer. Yes, there are tons of gimmicks and applications and games which are used 1 or 2 times. But there are also games which people remain playing for a long time, and applications which enhance a person's life. I used to carry a small light with me. Now I don't anymore; my phone can do this for me. I still carry my pocket swiss army knife; my phone cannot replace this (yet). I don't carry a watch anymore; I have my phone. I don't carry coins for a cellphone anymore; my phone can call. I don't carry CDs or MCs anymore; my phone can do this for me. I don't have to pick up a dictionary anymore; my phone has one. And so on, and so on.

So instead of that commercial suggesting what the user wants we also must cater to conscious users who are searching for the quality. This can be done by blogs which test out software and report on it (good marketing) but also with an advanced search. The former is partly ItT's function; the latter a good Application Manager does. We have this information overflow cluttering us the very same problem in Debian APT, and Debian is solving this with tags. Freshmeat solved it with tags as well. And tags are used elsewhere too, for example on blogs.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

I am pretty sure that even with the above things considered, you still won't be able to count more than a dozen of apps you need.

Good. Let us count now:

1. Browser (usually built-in).
2. RSS feed reader.
3. Email client (usually built-in).
4. SSH client.
5. Twitter client.
6. IM client.
7. Widgets (usually free).

This accounts for the total of 7 (seven) applications you need. Two of them are built-in, Another one is free. Out of the remaining 4, RSS reader and SSH client are free for Symbian/S60 phones. This leaves you with exactly 2 (two) applications to buy.

I hope you see what I've meant now :)

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

RSS feed reader is built in on every phone i own.
IM client is free for S60 phones and built in on recent models.

you might also count viewers for PDF/DOC/XLS/... - also built in.

to be more precise, lets see what the brand new Nokia 5730 XpressMusic will have:
* Clock: analogue, digital and world clock
* Alarm clock with different tones
* Calculator
* Organizer
* Calendar
* Converter
* Notes
* To-do list
* MIDP Java 2.0 & CLDC1.1
* Flash Lite 2.0
* Nokia Chat
* Nokia Messaging
* Windows (MSN) Live
* Nokia full Web Browser (OSS) with Mini Map, Web feeds support (RSS) and xSP framework support
* Enhanced web browsing with progressive download, widgets and RSS feeds
* Boingo installer 1.15
* AccuWeather widget
* Facebook (icon launcher)
* Gimlet 2.0 SP3 + Mail for Exchange 2.7.37
* Hi5 (widget)
* Internet & FM Radio
* Manual Video Editor
* Mobile Dictionary
* MS Office viewers
* MusicPlayer inc9
* MySpace (icon launcher)
* Online Share v4.0 (Ovi, Flickr, VOX server configured, based on agreements)
* PDF reader
* Photos
* PodCasting
* RealPlayer
* We:Offset
* Windows Live 1.5
* N-Gage 1.1 (try and buy Games will be in memory card)
* YouTube (icon launcher)
* Nokia Music Store & Comes with Music
* Nokia Music for PC client (Requires a compatible PC)
* Ovi
* Ovi Contacts with Music presence
* Files on Ovi
* Home Media (Home Media browser and UPnP framework)
* Maps 2.0
* Homescreen for Xpress music
* Mobile Search v 4.1
* My Nokia 2.1
* Say & Play (called Music Search in menu)
* Settings Wizard5
* Startup Settings3
* Still Image Editor 3.1
* Switch 5.0
* VideoCentre 4.0
* Welcome Application 2.0
* Download Client! 4.0 (Altair)
* Sports Tracker v2.0
* N-Gage

my 6110 navigator was also packed with applications out of the box. it may be getting more difficult for 3rd party devolopers. then again: if they offer me a browser that's better for me than the built-in browser and still offers some level of integration with the system, i might still buy it even if i already have one pre-installed.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

The browser needs extensions IMO. I'd need a dictionary too. I don't need a Twitter client myself, but many do need that. The SSH client (PuTTy) is indeed free for Symbian but there are many commercial SSH clients as well. Then I like to export services: I use JoikuSpot and ExtGPS. If ExtGPS costed 3 EUR I would have bought it too. JoikuSpot I bought too and such is also available on iPhone and WM6. Because they're one of a kind and useful. Then there is navigation, and I named many more examples.

One thing I agree on with you: OSes get more and more feature complete, and it isn't easy to get a commercial success. The long-term commercial success lies in an application which is very useful, marketed well, and a good UI. An example of that is Trein. A failure of that is Wayfinder although it was 'one of a kind' for quite a while, and still has its pros compared to free services, many people are now OK with the free alternatives and free services.

Hmm. Something ironic... LogMeIn for iPhone costs 30 USD. For N8x0 its free...

Office for mobile phones is usually commercial as well btw. A good browser (Opera Mini) costs money. Nowadays Opera Mini has more competition but a few years ago it was one of a kind.

And Benny, Nokia Maps comes with my Nokia E71 as well. Its a 1-week trial though.

Re: Do we envy jPhone developers?
 

I don't understand this. iTunes as well as the on-device app store easily allows you to browse apps by category.

And I have used the search function with success; no it's no Google but it can find apps fairly easily, even the on-device app store. It is at least as easy as Maemo's method of adding programs, and is super easy to find an app if you know the name of the app you want. Plus the reviews are right there and usually a few screenshots as well. And if you don't like the app, it takes like 2 seconds to remove it from your iPhone - no need to open up an app manager program.