View Single Post
Benson's Avatar
Posts: 4,930 | Thanked: 2,272 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#83
Originally Posted by ddalex View Post
Good points.... I have to stress out that I'm describing my _subjective_ experience. I'm not saying that others don't find these devices useful beside being lovely (and yes, I'm very proud of my toys ). But my point is that we should focus on how to improve the experience of using this device, and pass to Nokia these desires. This sounds a lot like market-droid-speak, but it isn't.

So allow me to quote you in trying to make a constructive approach here (even if it may sound like bashing, and blame-throwing, it isn't; all of you guys, think of this as a post-mortem on the current status of NITs, and a discussion on where we want to take them).


Good point. But NIT's are not the ground-breaking devices they want to be, user experince-wise. We've had time to form an idea about what a PDA does, what a PMP does, what do you expect from a low-end and from a high-end laptop since years ago. In this case, it's not about reinventing the wheel from scratch, it's about taking all the wheel designs made so far and figure out how to make a new better wheel. I'd expect incremental inovation from a known base, not starting from 0 like Newton and Palm did. But it seems that the tablets do not capitalize on that knowledge.

So you say that two years and three iterations is too short to make a new device for a new market out of thin air. I say it's about enough, and the next iteration should be consumer-level. iPods went from nothing to millions sold in less than 2 years.
You speak of iPods going from introduction to millions of sales; that's what Apple does...

But MP3 players had been around for awhile, and were pretty much mainstream-ready; they just weren't mainstream for want of good marketing behind the good ones that were out. That two years was Apple being cool enough to make people want things they didn't previously, not developing a new category of device.

If Apple is taking the IT idea and running with it, it's a good sign that mainstream-ready is within reach. Of course, that's your whole point, that it's in reach, and Nokia's not reaching it.

I'm not complaining that the tablets are not at consumer-level so far; but I hope that the next iteration will be at true consumer level; I invested too much passion, energy and interest in these specific devices to watch light-heartadly how it is gonna be surpased and killed by iThings that will lock devs (and myself) out of it. So what I'm trying to do is make Nokia listen to my and my fellow NIT users requests for improvement, and take action on them, so in the next iteration we will get a consumer-level tablet that is still very friendly to developers and OSS crowd.
I think they're understanding this better than you think, that they're listening to feedback somewhat better than you think, and that the next tablet will be cookin', so to speak. They've had a series of that hard luck that characterises life, which made a lot of software things slip and miss the releases they should have been in, but the hardware is unbeatable, and while the OS is an experiment, it's not the only one; remember they had substantial involvement with Ubuntu Mobile, which they're trying to learn from.

Whether they switch to a direct Ubuntu Mobile derivative, or apply what they've learned to make Maemo's development process more community-involved (which is more likely, but not certain), they're gonna get some of what you're after that way.

I'm well aware of those pesky lawyers and their legal implications. My point is that the worst position to be in is half-closed and half-OSS. You'll annoy everybody and you'll be in no side. In my country we call this "haveing your *** in two boats will only get you drawned".
Yes it is, but at least they're not adding to the closed-source side with closed-source Java implementations... Using hardware with some elements licensed strictly is a lot different from using closed-source, imho.


Two years, three iterations later, I think that this product line should take momentum. If not now, then when ?. NITs already competitors that are on more-or-less equal terms now, and which hadn't the two year advantage. I strongly suspect that if this line doesn't take off now, it will never get the chance again, even if this happens for simple economic reasons.
Well, I'd say it is gaining momentum. Watch the number of new users asking dumb questions in these forums. The N810 is seriously more popular than the N800, even with several distinct downsides and a price tag easily accounting for the improvements (IMHO). Why? There's either a shift in marketing or more marketing, it's got a more consumer-friendly (if less geek-friendly) feature set... I'm not sure of any other explanations, but it is more popular, that's for sure. I can't see the N900 reversing that trend.

The guys and girls who built that did it good starting from nothing. It took them 5 years, yes.
They didn't start from zero; they started from other platforms. Other, not really applicable, platforms. They had PCs. We have cell-phones (with no touch screens) and PDAs (with limited functionality expected) and of course laptops (with no touch-screens, with full keyboards and processing power to burn). But Psions were really the only things I'm aware of that were close.
But we (read IT community and designers) already have good ideas on how to proceed - why throw away and re-learning everything from scratch how to make mobile computing ? And spending another 5 years on that ? Maemo as platform is already 3 years old, and it's getting dated by the minute now. The moment Android comes alive on a HTC device, doing everything NIT does, but with better capabilites, NITs and Nokia will be in big trouble.
Of course, provided the price is comparable... But Android shows no signs of reaching that state anytime soon; OOo is running under maemo. Maybe not usefully for most people, and only with loads of Debian help, but Android's tossing all compatibility, so it can't do that.
I'll repet myself, I belive that this is the latest critical point to change the mission of NIT and make it into a mainstream platform. So think about what should be next in NIT line and voice your thoughts.
I don't think it's a critical point, nor a mission change; I think you could better argue that it's urgent for Nokia to accelerate the existing plan by applying more resources. And naturally, I'd love that; I'm not sure how much effort is required for survival, but it's obvious that the more resources, the better the tablets will do. But we don't know how resource allocation is inside Nokia, and they may already be applying much more effort.

Damn, running into limitations. Will follow up on next post.
Let's, and say we didn't!