Here we disagree. If you do not advertise, thus get the word out... then even the best product will flounder while the mediocre products will flourish. Case in point... Microsoft Windows. Forums/boards don't really get the word out... this place is almost an amorphous mixture of like-minded folks.

Here in the States, even while I was in Japan... Microsoft had presence. It's not about shouting at the top of your lungs like the vintage Sega ads with the "SEGA!!" scream in them (Sega Genesis in the US, Sega Mega Drive elsewhere). But what I'm talking about is merely putting out a presence beyond - well I hate to label even myself - those jaded folks with more ideals about how a phone is marketed as opposed to those that will buy whatever is marketed to them.

How did Microsoft do it? Print ads, very few commercials... most weren't even worth remembering. But it left an impression because they were at least advertising during a time IBM wasn't.

Simply put, advertising never has swayed the hardcore consumer of any product. If I want to buy all Nokia products due to some preconception that I want only Nokia, as a consumer that was my decision to make. To other folks that follow the "Ooh, shiny shiny" trends... they need to be alerted to what's out there, what it does and above all, how others want it too.

That last part, is towards building a consumer level of representation. Something that does not exist in Japan and North America. Until I talk to folks about the different series of Nokia phones, all they know is that Nokia makes the ultra-cheap phones that come for free with their subsidized account with AT&T or whomever.

Normal people don't do research. That's who I mean by reach out to them. You guys are talking about VW's and Bugatti's... I'm talking about Toyota Camry's and whatever is the best seller in your region. In regards to the stuff that's out there, of course there are more expensive options. Like Nokia, want exclusivity, get a Vertu. Same stuff anyway.

But that's neither here nor there. If you're on these boards, advertising won't mean a thing to you. It never probably has, never will.

Nokia needs to increase their presence in regards to what's in the aforementioned markets as well as their upcoming OS endeavors. And sadly, people dictating ad nauseum that "Nokia shouldn't do that" ... have you seen the stock price slide that much in Nokia history?

Advertising can't hurt. And I don't mean the screaming at me type either. That's no longer advertising to me either.

Want screaming... and barely unrecognizable commercials? Look no further than Japan. I seriously thought I was on drugs for 23 months - and I'm 100% drug free mind you - while watching shows in Japan. Those commercials were downright wacky, random and screamed.

I just don't get the whole "do not advertise" mentality of some people - not you directly - that seem to overlook three things:

1. Ads are normally not seen by geeks
2. Ads are not for hardcore consumers/fanboys/fans usually - they don't need to be convinced
3. Ads educate the uneducated to what is coming - so you don't have to

Get outside of yourself for a moment. Without ads, then nobody will know a damn thing about your product.

Case in point - Pandora (handheld emulator). Leave the forums, talk to the layman about that. If they think you're not talking about the Greek myth of Pandora's box, you've located yet another geek more than likely.