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2008-06-23
, 21:52
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Posts: 17 |
Thanked: 5 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
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#52
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Originally Posted by matthewcb4
Before you do much with your 22" garden chainsaw you better know...
Before you do much with the n8x0 you better know what your doing or you could possibly cause havock with you $400+ pocket device.
This is a process that a lot of people just dont have time for or just dont want to painfully go through.
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2008-06-23
, 21:55
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Posts: 177 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
@ Phoenix
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#53
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus
Check out alice.org. Teaching programming fundamentals isn't as hard as people are trying to make it.
Not very realistic. I know many people with a higher education who wouldn't know how to use a file manager, let alone OO Programming. And teaching computer basics is only useful if you use that knowledge on a daily basis.
And I disgaree with your contention that "teaching computer basics is only useful if you use that knowledge on a daily basis". That is like saying "teaching Spanish is only useful if you use that knowledge on a daily basis" or "teaching algebra is only useful if you use that knowledge on a daily basis" or "teaching geometry is only useful if you use that knowledge on a daily basis", and on and on ad nauseum.
Kind of the same as with financial knowledge. How much do you know about mortage, investing, insurance? Probably just enough to get by like most do (including me), unless you work in finance.
Anyway, what's your point? That we should accept the dumbed-down workld we live in as the standard to strive for? Well, OK, better for my kid, who I assure you, WILL be taught about mortgages, investing, insurance, and yes, the basics of computer science.
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2008-06-23
, 22:01
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Posts: 177 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
@ Phoenix
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#54
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Originally Posted by matthewcb4
Those are things that a casual user doesn't need to know. Rotation on an IT isn't a standard feature, niether is booting from an SD card. Rotation likely REQUIRES you to use xterm (I don't know cause I don't use it), but again, screen rotation is not needed to use the ITs. Everything that Nokia claims their device does, it does just fine without rotation, without needing to use xterm, without needing to use apt-get. Why is this such a point of contention for you?
Well maby then there is a good chance that you know something that i dont so if you do then how do you install the rotation support without going into xterm? What about booting from an external card? These are the sort of things that im talking about.
Like for example how would i get rid of those themes without going into xterm or using a command line of sorts, givin the fact that when i installed them i didnt realise that i needed to make up a backup? I dont know of a way but maby someone with your background does?
Last edited by Wes Doobner; 2008-06-23 at 22:03.
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2008-06-23
, 22:03
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Posts: 961 |
Thanked: 565 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Tyneside, North East England
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#55
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Advanced and experimental stuff like rotation and booting from SD cards will nearly always need xterm access. that's not particular to Maemo or Linux, just that you are playing with cutting edge and advanced topics, which is great as a lot of people are too afraid of the unfamilar to experiment. A lot of the work I do with Windows ends up as scripts and batch files.
The good thing is that you can always ask uncle google, which is what we do all the time. Maemo is not far off standard linux and a lot of the commands, tips and tricks work exactly the same.
The only way to remove stuffed applications, including themes, where you did not take a full backup immeadiately prior is to make a note on paper, or on the tablet, saved on an sd card or course of the apps you use. Then run a backup excluding the installed applications. Reflash and then restore and then reinstall the apps manually. We all should backup before any change, but there is always just that once where you think it won't kill anything or it's really minor - and it screws everything. Anyone who spends any time with computers who say they have never done that is either fibbing, or not doing as much as they say they are! They may only do it once though!!!
Gaz
The good thing is that you can always ask uncle google, which is what we do all the time. Maemo is not far off standard linux and a lot of the commands, tips and tricks work exactly the same.
The only way to remove stuffed applications, including themes, where you did not take a full backup immeadiately prior is to make a note on paper, or on the tablet, saved on an sd card or course of the apps you use. Then run a backup excluding the installed applications. Reflash and then restore and then reinstall the apps manually. We all should backup before any change, but there is always just that once where you think it won't kill anything or it's really minor - and it screws everything. Anyone who spends any time with computers who say they have never done that is either fibbing, or not doing as much as they say they are! They may only do it once though!!!
Gaz
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2008-06-23
, 22:24
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 65 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Westcountry, UK
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#56
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Originally Posted by mwiktowy
Although there are obviously a lot of things trapped in specific formats, there are many applications that don't have equivalent applications to use in other systems.
In my experience with my victims ... errr ... friends and family that I have introduced Linux to, it is not "favorite" Windows applications they want to run, it is rather the applications that they have learned the step by step methods for how they want to do their day to day stuff; as painful as those steps might be. It is also the applications that they have their data trapped in.
As a mac user I find it annoying that there is nothing like visio for another platform, and there are many times I get annoyed on linux forums when people recommend gimp as an equivilent of photoshop.
Obviously there are some things, like word processing, project management and the like that are easy to do on any platform but complicated by a compatibility requirement with some other software (such as MS office). At that point it is irrelevant whether you should need compatibility with that software, just the fact that you do for your job.
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2008-06-23
, 22:28
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 65 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Westcountry, UK
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#57
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Originally Posted by gazza_d
Huh? I have had rotation of screens on a variety of computers since the mid 90s and never once needed any terminal access to do it, so I guess it is just a linux thing. I also do a lot of work with windows without ever needing batch files.
Advanced and experimental stuff like rotation and booting from SD cards will nearly always need xterm access. that's not particular to Maemo or Linux, just that you are playing with cutting edge and advanced topics, which is great as a lot of people are too afraid of the unfamilar to experiment. A lot of the work I do with Windows ends up as scripts and batch files.
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2008-06-23
, 22:37
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Posts: 53 |
Thanked: 5 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
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#58
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Ok your all right. Linux isent just for nerds. Everyone should know all about command lines and it should be tought in school. That is just one of the things that people are going to use on a daily basis, including spanish and geometry.
The facts are that people are going to use computers every day and even though thay are going to put some of their most important information on that computer to brodcast into the web thay are not going to spend the time to learn all about linux when there is windows that you can just pay $50 bucks a year and have someone else protect that information for you. Or, lets go one step further and say a Mac... now very user friendly and you dont have to worry about viruses and any of that. How will linux be able to compete with any of that when thay stand idol with command lines?
Anyways I will again admit that I am still new to the tablets and i do love the n810, but im still a consumer that wants the most for my money and when i see that there is something out there that is cutting edge and that my utillity is capable of but i have to go through a large learning course just to get to that objective as apposed to just a simple click it can get a little overwhelming.
Argue with me as much as you want but im just coming from the point of a regular computer user who would regulary look at someone using lenux and say that its just to much dedication for something that i can do with minimal background on another OS.
The facts are that people are going to use computers every day and even though thay are going to put some of their most important information on that computer to brodcast into the web thay are not going to spend the time to learn all about linux when there is windows that you can just pay $50 bucks a year and have someone else protect that information for you. Or, lets go one step further and say a Mac... now very user friendly and you dont have to worry about viruses and any of that. How will linux be able to compete with any of that when thay stand idol with command lines?
Anyways I will again admit that I am still new to the tablets and i do love the n810, but im still a consumer that wants the most for my money and when i see that there is something out there that is cutting edge and that my utillity is capable of but i have to go through a large learning course just to get to that objective as apposed to just a simple click it can get a little overwhelming.
Argue with me as much as you want but im just coming from the point of a regular computer user who would regulary look at someone using lenux and say that its just to much dedication for something that i can do with minimal background on another OS.
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2008-06-23
, 22:50
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Posts: 566 |
Thanked: 150 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#59
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Originally Posted by Wes Doobner
If you mean by general computer knowledge the basic concepts, like network, file system, operating system, then I agree that is something that would help some people make better use of their computer. That is only true for those who are able to relate that knowledge to help them solve specific problems. And the reality is, I say, that even if they should, many people are simply unable to think of computers in such an abstract way. Try to explain the concept of client-server to a person for which the little blue icon on the desktop is 'the internet'.
And I disgaree with your contention that "teaching computer basics is only useful if you use that knowledge on a daily basis". (...)
What i also disagree with is the usefulness of asking people to learn some script language or how 'x' works or some other specific system. Because unlike the basic concepts, and unlike Spanish or algebra, it gets outdated by the time people need it again. Just like it is more more useful to have a general understanding of finance than to know the details about a certain financial law or regulation.
So I agree that computer education would be beneficial for society to an extent. But those who sell software or hardware for the consumer market have no choice but to deal with the existing level of knowledge, and expecting to know too many specifics just won't work.
Last edited by iamthewalrus; 2008-06-23 at 23:02.
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2008-06-23
, 22:52
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#60
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Originally Posted by krisse
No, people stick with Windows because everybody they know uses it, and Windows is free.
It's not that I'm saying command lines are impossible to learn, what I'm saying is that people will take one look at them in Linux and stick with Windows. They won't want to try to learn, because Windows doesn't force them to.
"So when someone looks at Linux, all they see is the unfamiliarity of it, and nothing there that's so good to make them switch from Windows. After all, they're not saving anything or gaining anything by switching."
Originally Posted by krisse
I hate compiling programs. I've tried a few times, succeeded once or twice, but it is never a pretty process. But I love Bob. He's great, even when I completely disagree with him, which is at least half of the time.
Love him or hate him, the technology columnist Bob Cringely summed up the problem quite well a few years ago: "Hands up everyone who uses Linux who hasn't compiled software?"
Originally Posted by krisse
I agree with you, I think the command line is useful but it should be the last resort of the hacker and technician. The average user should never have to see it or use it. All configuration except the most dangerous, high-level break-your-system stuff should be possible via a GUI.
Are there any such communities which cater to Linux users who don't want to use things like command lines?
Originally Posted by gwalborn
I find it very interesting that, for all the supposed "ease of use" of Windows, they've put all the configuration stuff into inaccessible binary files like the "Windows Registry" and stuff. I must say, the fully commented plain text files of Linux are very nice in comparison. Trying to figure out where those text files are, on the other hand, can be difficult.
I find things easier on Linux than Windows. It often seems to me that Windows, in an effort to be simpler, has hidden many operations from the user.
Originally Posted by krisse
Please, do. I think there's a huge market for that.
Okay, am I to take it there is no community for Ubuntu users who hate command lines?
Because if there isn't I might just set one up.
Originally Posted by joepagiii
Okay, everybody together! Hoark!!! Spit!!
get a slimy iphone
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Thank you all for your donations!
Last edited by qole; 2008-06-23 at 23:13.
Like for example how would i get rid of those themes without going into xterm or using a command line of sorts, givin the fact that when i installed them i didnt realise that i needed to make up a backup? I dont know of a way but maby someone with your background does?