well whene i find some cli text i cut and paste it...and make a .txt and save it....i have a folder full on my pc here just for the n800...heck i have a folder there...just cut and paste...sure if i new how to script id be making little scripts...not the best but it works for me...

WOW so I guess ignorence realy is bliss!!

Hands Karel a sense of humour, complete with fully functional irony detector as obviously his is playing up!

Better prepare ur apzz for teh future!

HA HA that is a pretty funny movie but when it comes to computers(hardware and software) people are looking for things that are more convienient to use, not something that thay have to take a class on just so that thay can do some basic install's. I do believe that if you want to do some of the more advanced things out there then yes to do need to study up, but with the market the way it's going then its time to just face the truth.... Convience wins every time. The vast majority of people these days are way to busy with balancing family and work to spend hours learning codes when there is an alternative in the same market.

Where i live thay dont even cary the IT's because thay are not common enough. When i show someone my n810 thay do love it but i dont bother explaining all of the work that i have done to it just to get it to this stage. If i did i know that i would cause them to loose there interest in about 2 minutes simply because the common person wouldnt want to go through all of the leg work.

I just hope that linux realises that thay are not going to acquire that market of people that want convience over performance as long as thay continue to force people to learn so much about command lines.

People can try and say that its stupid people that like windows but thats not the issue, its just a lot easier and a lot more convienient compared to; apt get, and all of that.

Thats just what it boils down to!!

Hmm, I've never used apt-get, on either my N800 or my Ubuntu desktop machine. I've also never taken a class on how to do "basic installs", and I've installed (and even removed) quite a bit of stuff on both machines.

As for convenience, there has to be a balance between convenience, utility, and security. Unfortunately in the computer world, especially the "online" computer world, "convenience" is easily exploited for nefarious puposes, by those who know a thing or two about how that oh-so-convenient machine actually works. That's why Windows is such a rat's nest of vulnerabilities. The convenience is emphasized over the utility and security.

Promoting ignorance of how computers works by constantly dumbing the machines down to the lowest common denominator is the absolute wrong thing to do. It makes people more vulnerable, not less so. There should be an intellectual "cost" to using a computer... I'm not proposing everyone has to be programmers, but if you are going to put all your bank and credit card information, your tax forms, your SSN and birthdate, and whatever else, on your computer, and send that and more information over the internet, should you at least have a workable knowledge base of how the computer works, and thus, maybe understand the vulnerabilities?

And like it or not, as long as there is an internet, there will be those who look to exploit the "conveneince or bust" segment of society. Frankly, referring specifically to kids, people should be FORCED to use the more advanced features of computers, as opposed the "more convenient" point/click/forget it stuff they are presented with. Basic computer knowledge should be a part of elementary curriculum, and that includes basic OO programming, not just Powerpoint and Word.

Not very realistic. I know many people with a higher education who wouldn't know how to use a file manager, let alone OO Programming. And teaching computer basics is only useful if you use that knowledge on a daily basis.

Kind of the same as with financial knowledge. How much do you know about mortage, investing, insurance? Probably just enough to get by like most do (including me), unless you work in finance.

This is my point exactly. I do love to use my n810 but if I would have know that I would spend months just trying to get it to the point that most online users have there's then it may have caused me to reconsider. The only thing is that i do enjoy troubleshooting and problemsolving. Hell, I still dont know how to use xterm that much at all. In fact in another thread im still trying to find out how to uninstall the stupid vista and OSX theme's that i downloaded when I first bought my n810. These are the sort of problems that would turn most possible customers away from the IT world! Before you do much with the n8x0 you better know what your doing or you could possibly cause havock with you $400+ pocket device. This is a process that a lot of people just dont have time for or just dont want to painfully go through.

Some of these comments regarding linux vs Windows, and having to drop to command lines to do anything useful amuse me.

I'm a pro Windows sysadmin, and I have a linux server at home running mythtv. Windows server at least is leaning more and more towards using a command line interface. Indeed server 2008 can be installed with a CLI only, and the shell is no more powerful than ever. Which kinda goes against what most people think about windows. And for a more universal example, hop onto a Windows box 2000 or later, and try and display the IP address and associated details graphically - answer you cannot. There was one in 95 and 98(winipcfg) but it never appeared after that. Most liux distros have a utility to display the same information in the GUI.

MatthewCb4 - I am a seasoned Linux, unix and Windows pro, and the only times I have used the xterm on either my 770 or n800, other than for remoting into my mythtv/linux box is for running the old Canola tuning appication to troubleshoot it.

tablets and Windows and Linux are all breakable by downloading and installing apps you then don't like and cannot get rid of. that is what backups and OS images are for. I have reflashed my N800 3 or 4 times and it takes me about 30 minutes to get the thing back to how I want it if I need to reflash - take a backup before you install any app, and it's then a doddle to reflash and restore using the Windows tool from Nokia - A lot easier than doing the same with Windows. the tablet will automatically reinstall your applications for you - not seen windows do that!