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Capt'n Corrupt is offline Capt'n Corrupt
2009-05-26 , 11:45
Posts: 3,524 | Thanked: 2,958 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant
#371
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Let me make a practical suggestion to you and Peter:

How about establishing some channel of communication between people who do hardware design for Maemo devices and the Maemo community? It does not have to be anything particularly involved, just some semi-formal way for Maemo users to convey to hardware designers what they actually want from a device. Right now, things appear to be a bit disconnected, with whoever is responsible for the hardware delivering on the standard checklists of features (camera - check!, gps - check!, etc) but completely missing on what actual users want (why nobody thought of putting a dpad on the back of the device where you hold it as a camera?)
While the OS is open (modifying/forking), the hardware certainly isn't and as such isn't subject to the whims of the community. Nokia will guage their decisions on measurements of the larger market, which is wise for any group (closed or open) that seeks to maximize adoption of their product.

Besides, if this community is any indication, we don't know what we want. Individually, perhaps, but not as a cohesive whole. Between D-pads on the inside and out, capacitive vs. resistive touch, keyboards and no keyboards, phone vs. data only, etc, we are tremendously fragmented in vision and preference. Add to that, that we seem to complain about devices one day, then champion them the next (N800/N810). Individually we may have an idea of what we want, but together, we resemble a patient suffering of dissociative identity disorder.

A multi-billion dollar company planning a course to a successful product based on a small group of fragmented posters, is not good business sense, or sense period.


YARR!
}:^)~
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attila77 is offline attila77
2009-05-26 , 11:50
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#372
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
So you can look at your survey, but you can also remember all the things that have been discussed here. In ITt. Within the very same Maemo community.
I might have not been concise/down to the point enough - I was just saying, over time, the userbase HERE is getting pretty uniformed on some base-expectations (with a few notable exceptions, of course). I know this means ZERO representation of NIT people in the streets, focus groups, potential new users who would very much prefer a phone in there, etc. I was completely referring to my observations in light of the perceived expectations of the tmo community. I'm not saying Nokia should do this or should do that. As for previous discussions - yes, there were harsh word over even minor quibbles and HW mods (boy am I going to get unthanked from microSD dissers for this ), but has it ever been nearly as uniform a response as it was here with the screen size issue, taking my silly poll into account or not ?
 
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fpp is offline fpp
2009-05-26 , 12:02
Posts: 2,853 | Thanked: 968 times | Joined on Nov 2005
#373
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
So you can look at your survey, but you can also remember all the things that have been discussed here. In ITt. Within the very same Maemo community.
Ask yourself how many tablets are currently lying somewhere because their owners at some point got tired of carrying two devices, one of them being actually too big for their pocket and etc.
...and how many stubborn owners like me, who have upgraded BOTH devices (tablet and phone) *three times* since the 770 came out ? :-)

Just as an additional data point, of course : that's six Nokia devices :-)
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2009-05-26 , 12:05
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#374
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
I hope it is also obvious to everyone involved here the percentage of potential customers and users that are not here. I at least see the gaps just as much as the non-gaps. The vocal range of the current talk.maemo.org forum population does not equal the mass market / average user voice.
Certainly ! I fully agree opening to people currently repulsed or on the fence because of form factor, voice or something similar. I just tried to deduce what a 'hardcore' early-adopter would consider the essence of NIT's, but apparently Quim took it a bit as a request to dissmiss different approaches or try to present an opinion as globally dominant What Nokia wants to offer to the people currently on the NIT boat is of course Nokia's choice. Personally, it would still be nice not to feel as a gambit asset, though (i.e. trade 50K current users for 100K different users by shifting the target audience). Again, I'm not saying this is happening as it won't be clear where the Maemo hardware division is headed until the Maemo 5 lineup is announced. Just thinking out loud, no judgements or intention of pressure.
 
fms is offline fms
2009-05-26 , 12:09
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#375
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
Besides, if this community is any indication, we don't know what we want.
On the contrary, recent discussion threads show that we do know what we want.

A multi-billion dollar company planning a course to a successful product based on a small group of fragmented posters, is not good business sense, or sense period.
"100 bloggers is not a market" is a common argument used to blow off any ideas of user participation in development process. It is, of course, true that 100 people do not represent the whole market. Thus, blindly following what these people say would be unwise. Nevertheless, when you have got 100 people actively using your product on the daily basis, you should at least listen to what these people have to say about the product. They are essentially testing your product for free, finding new use cases and optimal device configurations. Why not use their experience as one of input components during device design is not clear to me. For example, when active 100 users are telling you that they want a dpad, the chances are pretty high that the remaining N million potential users will also want dpads.
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Last edited by fms; 2009-05-26 at 12:12.
 

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daperl is offline daperl
2009-05-26 , 12:11
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#376
I thought we had an understanding that there would be no more marketing seminars. You come to a forum of people and treat us like statistics. Again, we know why you're doing what you're doing, but why can't you accept that some of us don't like it and think less of Nokia for doing it? You seem to think we're unreasonable, well, same to you.
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totololo is offline totololo
2009-05-26 , 12:13
Posts: 258 | Thanked: 176 times | Joined on May 2009 @ Paris France
#377
Anyway, the picture suposedly leaked of this next NIT is really awfull, prespective is a mess in the keyboard area, as well as the top of the screen and the camera ...
I suppose that Nokia wouldn't make a so ugly drawing. So, it should be a fake.
 
ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-05-26 , 12:25
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#378
Originally Posted by fms View Post
"100 bloggers is not a market" is a common argument used to blow off any ideas of user participation in development process. It is, of course, true that 100 people do not represent the whole market. Thus, blindly following what these people say would be unwise. Nevertheless, when you have got 100 people actively using your product on the daily basis, you should at least listen to what these people have to say about the product. They are essentially testing your product for free, finding new use cases and optimal device configurations. Why not use their experience as one of input components during device design is not clear to me. For example, when active 100 users are telling you that they want a dpad, the chances are pretty high that the remaining N million potential users will also want dpads.
You fail to see the bias in there. The 100 customers that bought joystick cars tend to like the joysticks in their cars. It's both a bias of accepting certain solutions, and another bias of growing accustomed to whatever you are currently using.

Best practice is to take the entire population of potential consumers - certainly including the current users - and to test amongst them as a whole. The dpad discussion has been discussed to death, but your assumption in this case is simply not correct. Naturally the results of any dpad study also depend on the hardware and the SW running in that hardware. It's about what kind of user experience we want to provide to the users.
 

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fms is offline fms
2009-05-26 , 12:41
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#379
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
You fail to see the bias in there. The 100 customers that bought joystick cars tend to like the joysticks in their cars. It's both a bias of accepting certain solutions, and another bias of growing accustomed to whatever you are currently using.
Well, dpad is pretty much necessary for most dynamic games, and most Nokia phones have dpads. So, by removing dpad you close off whole bunch of use cases at the advantage of not having 4 stupid little buttons. It is not like not having a joystick in your car, but more akin to not having a steering wheel.

Best practice is to take the entire population of potential consumers - certainly including the current users - and to test amongst them as a whole.
It is not physically possible to test on more than a few thousand people at a time. Furthermore, all you can expect from such a test is a bunch of filled out questionnaires of "like / don't like" kind. By comparison, here you have got a few hundred (not few thousand) people who handled your devices and know their strong and weak sides.
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Master of Gizmo is offline Master of Gizmo
2009-05-26 , 12:43
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#380
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Yep. There goes ebook reading...
Are you aware that nokia selected an ebook reader as one of the fremantle stars?
 

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