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attila77	2009-07-23 , 14:41
Posts: 3,319 \| Thanked: 5,610 times \| Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland	#21

Originally Posted by johnkzin

Except that they DO give you the source code to pretty much everything except the application market program, allowing anyone (not just OHA members) to do what they want with it (such as random people porting it to netbooks, someone porting the application layer to run on top of desktop linux, etc.). That's definitely more liberty than EZX was ... by a LONG shot.

This is result of the service/software approach you outlined at the end. Android can say it's free because the parts others don't want to disclose (telephony, etc) is not there so it's not 'their' problem if Moto, Archos or anybody else implements something and locks it up. So, with regard to freedom, you, as a user, are pretty much where you were with EZX - good luck with replacing the Android (or significant pars of it) the original handset maker put on the device. Yes, can be theoretically done, but it's more hack-of-the-day material and definitely handset specific (e.g. it's not *android* that will make or break this option).

The other big difference is that because the core Android team isn't a handset maker, they have no reason to be guarded about it like Moto was. And the various handset makers don't view it as giving control of their handsets to a competitor. Thus, it's spreading beyond a single handset maker, and it's gaining more mindshare than EZX ever had.

This I agree with, that's why I said it's EZX 'done right'.

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	johnkzin	2009-07-23 , 14:49
	Posts: 1,878 \| Thanked: 646 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ San Jose, CA	#22

Originally Posted by attila77

Android can say it's free because the parts others don't want to disclose (telephony, etc) is not there so it's not 'their' problem if Moto, Archos or anybody else implements something and locks it up. So, with regard to freedom, you, as a user, are pretty much where you were with EZX

And how is that different from RedHat (which includes non-open components, last time I looked)? Or Maemo (which, last I checked, Mer was having to re-implement parts of it, because not all of Maemo is open)?

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	tso	2009-07-23 , 14:51
	Posts: 4,783 \| Thanked: 1,253 times \| Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway	#23

i would not call X a liability...

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	johnkzin	2009-07-23 , 15:04
	Posts: 1,878 \| Thanked: 646 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ San Jose, CA	#24

Originally Posted by tso

i would not call X a liability...

Give me a list of successful mainstream products that use it as a primary windowing mechanism.

Compare that to the list of successful mainstream *nix based products (OS X desktop, OS X mobile, Android, ...).

I'm willing to bet that the differences in those lists is rather meaningful.

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attila77	2009-07-23 , 15:08
Posts: 3,319 \| Thanked: 5,610 times \| Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland	#25

Originally Posted by johnkzin

And how is that different from RedHat (which includes non-open components, last time I looked)? Or Maemo (which, last I checked, Mer was having to re-implement parts of it, because not all of Maemo is open)?

RedHat is different as there is no hardware tie-in. If I don't like RedHat and get it on my computer, I'll replace it with something I find acceptable. If you don't like Android on your G1, you replace it with... what ? Maemo is bad in that regard, too, but gradually improving and Mer is certainly a big step in the right direction.

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	tso	2009-07-23 , 15:42
	Posts: 4,783 \| Thanked: 1,253 times \| Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway	#26

Originally Posted by johnkzin

Give me a list of successful mainstream products that use it as a primary windowing mechanism.

Compare that to the list of successful mainstream *nix based products (OS X desktop, OS X mobile, Android, ...).

I'm willing to bet that the differences in those lists is rather meaningful.

why go x and free things to the world, when one can go prorietary and lock users to ones own platform...

i would say that looking at mainstream these days, when marketing have become a psychology science, is less then useful...

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benny1967

	Capt'n Corrupt	2009-07-23 , 21:01
	Posts: 3,524 \| Thanked: 2,958 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant	#27

Originally Posted by attila77

RedHat is different as there is no hardware tie-in. If I don't like RedHat and get it on my computer, I'll replace it with something I find acceptable. If you don't like Android on your G1, you replace it with... what ?

The only difference here is that PC hardware is more supported by multiple os's, thanks to years of hacking, plenty of industry standardization, etc, while the the G1 hardware is quite new. The fact that you can run android on the N8x0, netbooks, etc, imply that there is no hardware tie-in with Android either. So I would say it is not very different from Redhat in this regard.

Edit:
Here's a preliminary version of android working on an Xperia X1 (which I believe ships with winmo):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPL7GJzLcIk&NR=1

YARR!
}:^)~
CorruptHat

Last edited by Capt'n Corrupt; 2009-07-23 at 21:33.

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SD69	2009-07-23 , 21:54
Posts: 1,513 \| Thanked: 2,248 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ US	#28

Originally Posted by attila77

If you don't like Android on your G1, you replace it with... what ? Maemo is bad in that regard, too, but gradually improving and Mer is certainly a big step in the right direction.

And if you don't like the G1 hardware for some reason, you can get Android on any one of a large number of other devices. Maemo doesn't match that. If you don't like the N900 hardware, you can get Maemo (not Mer) on how many other devices ? . . . 0

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	benny1967	2009-07-23 , 22:13
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#29

Originally Posted by johnkzin

The question in my mind isn't "is Android open/free" -- it is. Anyone can download it, modify it, redistribute it, do what they want. And people have shown that you can even load other versions of Android onto the devices (hacked versions of Android, pre-releases of Android installed manually, etc.). Things layered on top of Android (the HTC Hero's advanced UI) aren't open/free, but that's not any different than Gnu/Linux. From an openness and freedom point of view, Android isn't any different than Gnu/Linux.

Originally Posted by johnkzin

Android, on the other hand, is built around a GPLed core.

Pls correct me if I'm wrong (and I mean it), but isn't Android Apache v2, not GPL? That's one of the main points in anti-Android rants.... that it is not GPL (or at least LGPL), so company XY can take the code, change it, relicense it under a closed source license so that you, the end user who bought the handset, will never see one single line of source code, let alone be able to change it and run the changed version on your device.

Last edited by benny1967; 2009-07-23 at 22:20.

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	benny1967	2009-07-23 , 22:18
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#30

Originally Posted by twaelti

Quite a luxury or "Sufering for the revolution"?

Anankasm.

I firmly believe it's The Right Thing and simply can't touch anything else any more. Need to wash hands after using Windows. Rush to the bathroom if Apple products come close.

Originally Posted by twaelti