songwillie is offline songwillie
2009-09-15 , 06:50
Posts: 1 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#341
christexaport, I never thought there could be so much use for portrait mode. Call me ignorant, but I've always thought it's just some people finding the excuse for wanting to use the phone or texting while driving.
You have opened my eyes and I am amazed by the way people use phones nowadays.
I definitely would wish for a phone wide portrait mode usage, if not during launch, then later through firmware upgrades.

Bravo!
 
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Mandibela is offline Mandibela
2009-09-15 , 11:44
Posts: 270 | Thanked: 195 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Finland
#342
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
Said Mandibela:
"So, some people want portrait-orientation on a phone, some need it. As it stands, and this is expressed many time in this thread, the N900 isn't the right device for those users... who apparently have single arms, cannot suddenly use a landscape-oriented phone? Already I can see an ultimate elite forming: those who can use their N900s the way they like, as it was designed.
"

Will this be the statement going forward? Or is there any traction to adding it to the Maemo 5 platform in the future? Because Symbian users are used to buying devices now and waiting on features expected in the future. But to simply say "Go try another OS" isn't what most Symbian users imagined an OSS OS would bring. We imagine something like our PyS60 devs on steroids. Ask for a feature loud enough in a large enough group, and watch it come to life. But 30 pages later, its a "do it our way or bounce" way of life. Sad, IMO.

Also, remember not all mobile users have even one hand or fingers. Accessibility is a major thing with Symbian, and I speak for many disabled mobile use groups. One of those is Amir Solemani, a great Symbian user who happens to be legally blind, and others that have missing limbs and other maladies. What do you tell them?? Get another hand or an HTC Hero?! I hope not. Being an FOSS developer means filling the needs of consumers. Which ones do we leave behind, those that want one handed usage and accessibility features? Maemo 6 is a year away. So we just say "wait" and not serve our base? Because by default, flagship and premium Symbian users just became a big part of it.
The thought came to me as the few individuals expressing their wishes were quite definitive in their needs for a device that clearly was designed as something different, that maybe in the future could support those needs. I'm defending the Nokia folks as they of course have the understanding of different peoples' needs, as they have clearly stated many times that they will have different platforms for different needs. The N900/fremantle is a transitive device between internet tablet and a 'flagship smartphone'.

In todays world it's perfectly fine to say that 'you must go look elsewhere, this device will not be suited to your needs'. If someone comes here with demands for something that is ideologically so far (in design, application, practice and what not) from the N900's purpose, I think that it is fair to comment even harshly that 'we won't do it'.

I, personally, want a device that is (from Nokia =) clear in its purpose, simple and functional. To me, the N900 is already that. As the iPhone is to others, and 1101 to others. You all see where I'm going with this...

And I do feel silly for writing all this. But I'd rather explain these things and maybe even get resposes, and pointers too so I can help friends in their purchases.
 

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Alex Atkin UK is offline Alex Atkin UK
2009-09-15 , 13:42
Posts: 716 | Thanked: 303 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Sheffield, UK
#343
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
I don't think the purpose of Maemo is to copy Symbian.

No feature is free. Every feature you add makes the entire package heavier and makes future development slower. Maemo is in an advantageous state because it doesn't have much legacy right now.
That may be true for MMS, but clearly not true for Portrait support.

Adding portrait support, having API calls that deal with it, software keyboard built-in, is essential for the opposite reason - it SAVES development time.

Personally, I do not mind so much if most of the built-in applications are landscape only, although I too would prefer to be able to send IM and SMS with one hand (but it would not stop be buying the N900). My personal objection, is as a developer I would expect at least a soft keyboard available via an API, even if none of the stock software actually uses it.

As for ASR (which kinda assumes ALL stock applications support it, a big request at this point) there are other issues too. For example I often watch YouTube and iPlayer in bed on my iPod Touch and ASR is a real problem there - it rotates the wrong way because my head is at 90 degrees to where it would normally be. So there is another example of "one size does not fit all" and personally, I would need applications to have a "temporarily disable ASR" option if it was implemented.

Ironically, the latter makes it pretty clear that the N900 will be extremely useful for me if I want to use it in bed with it being locked to landscape. But as others have said, its still not a good excuse to make it less useful for when trying to IM people on the bus where I may be stood up or have shopping bags in one hand.
Last edited by Alex Atkin UK; 2009-09-15 at 14:04.
 

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zerojay is offline zerojay
2009-09-15 , 14:16
Posts: 2,669 | Thanked: 2,555 times | Joined on Apr 2007
#344
Originally Posted by Alex Atkin UK View Post
Adding portrait support, having API calls that deal with it, software keyboard built-in, is essential for the opposite reason - it SAVES development time.
I can tell you've never worked in software development and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You aren't backing up your claim of how adding portrait support from the start would have saved development time. Nokians themselves earlier in this thread have said that it would have added almost a year to the N900's development time.

Adding more features adds more overhead to development time.

Adding more features adds on an exponentially greater amount of testing time.

These are facts of development life. Anyone that's worked in software development before will tell you the same thing.
 

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daperl is offline daperl
2009-09-15 , 16:04
Posts: 2,427 | Thanked: 2,986 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#345
Originally Posted by Alex Atkin UK View Post
it rotates the wrong way because my head is at 90 degrees to where it would normally be.
When that happens, try flipping your iPod another 180 degrees. It's funky (and clever), but here's how the iPod's ASR logic works:

Code:
If in landscape mode:
    if home button on opposite side of rotation:
        don't rotate screen to portrait mode
    else:
        rotate screen to portrait mode
For example, if the home button is on the right and I rotate counter-clockwise, the screen will stay in landscape mode. If the home button is on the left and I rotate counter-clockwise, the screen will rotate to portrait mode.
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crustie is offline crustie
2009-09-15 , 16:18
Posts: 5 | Thanked: 6 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#346
Here's an idea... What if we made a phone keypad in landscape mode, that could fill either the right half of the phone (for right handed users) or left half of the phone (for left handed users). I've already seen a picture of such a phone keypad in use in the landscape phone mode... All it takes is to add T9 to this and we can type our messages one-handed... Yay! Of course there is a danger of dropping the phone because its CG isnt centered at our hands unlike in portrait mode.

The other thing that concerns me is that the the all-too-important multi-task icon is at the TOP LEFT HAND corner. Sheesh... that means I wont be able to tap that button with ease when I'm holding my phone in landscape mode with my RIGHT hand

Perhaps nokia should learn from the mistakes of microsoft mobile (small 'x' icon on the top Right corner, and small start button on the top left') which were inaccessible with one hand, and take a leaf from iPhone (an accessible button at the bottom of the phone) which optimizes one-handed use
Last edited by crustie; 2009-09-15 at 16:20.
 

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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2009-09-15 , 16:27
Posts: 4,556 | Thanked: 1,624 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#347
Crustie hit the point perfectly. If you insist on landscape mode then put the important buttons near the bottom. I imagine thumb usage will be most common in landscape modee. My other interest in landscape mode is holding onto it. (grip with hand vs. grip with fingers) But with a wrist strap it seems that worry is gone.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 

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daperl is offline daperl
2009-09-15 , 17:02
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#348
Originally Posted by zerojay View Post
I can tell you've never worked in software development and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You aren't backing up your claim of how adding portrait support from the start would have saved development time. Nokians themselves earlier in this thread have said that it would have added almost a year to the N900's development time.

Adding more features adds more overhead to development time.

Adding more features adds on an exponentially greater amount of testing time.

These are facts of development life. Anyone that's worked in software development before will tell you the same thing.
I believe his premise is that if there are going to be portrait mode applications, then they will most likely need a similar toolset (virtual keyboards, etc.). If this toolset is not supplied by the OS, then each portrait mode application developer will have to reinvent the wheel. And they will probably reinvent the wheel with their own flavor, and thus UI consistency could go out the window. This would not only be a waist of time, it would be a waist of time with the side affects you were talking about.

So, I disagree with you, whether or not he has ever worked in software development, he knows what he's talking about if I interpreted his premise correctly. He may not have backed up his claim, but some of us who are in software development understood what he meant.
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NvyUs is offline NvyUs
2009-09-15 , 17:25
Posts: 1,885 | Thanked: 2,008 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ OVI MAPS
#349
I read in another thread how you want to integrate new users and get blogs to link them this way but after reading last 10 pages this is not a place for new people like me b/c old users all just gang up and pat each other on the back and belittle the opinions of newbies who are giving serious feed back.
some old users are taking the critiscm way too serious, this is thread for people to give opinions on improving the portrait support not for you to defend why its not needed.
this is not on attack on anyone in peticular and i must add some old users here see how important it is to have portrait mode but others just go all out defensive
Last edited by NvyUs; 2009-09-15 at 17:28.
 

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zerojay is offline zerojay
2009-09-15 , 17:27
Posts: 2,669 | Thanked: 2,555 times | Joined on Apr 2007
#350
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
I believe his premise is that if there are going to be portrait mode applications, then they will most likely need a similar toolset (virtual keyboards, etc.). If this toolset is not supplied by the OS, then each portrait mode application developer will have to reinvent the wheel. And they will probably reinvent the wheel with their own flavor, and thus UI consistency could go out the window. This would not only be a waist of time, it would be a waist of time with the side affects you were talking about.

So, I disagree with you, whether or not he has ever worked in software development, he knows what he's talking about if I interpreted his premise correctly. He may not have backed up his claim, but some of us who are in software development understood what he meant.
If he was talking about just an API, sure... of course it makes sense that Nokia has one for everyone to use. Even still, that API will take time to develop if there isn't already one available (if one is even needed to begin with). That time isn't free for Nokia.
 
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