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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-06-08 , 17:30
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#61
Originally Posted by Freemantle View Post
On the other hand, is marketing really the issue? Is steve jobs simply the best salesman on the planet? Probably not. Sure Apple plays up their devices, they hype them to a huge extent, but we are just entering the 4th age of the iphone, there has to be something behind all the marketing. It's not like Jobs is selling us all the emperor's new clothes. if that were the case it would have been seen through by now.

There are many factors in Apple's success story other than Marketing.
Marketing is the issue in the context of the recent posts in this thread. If you re-read:
I said that not being so aggressive with their marketing is not Nokia's weakness (as suggested by someone else here), but their strength - because I wouldn't buy anything that's so hyped as Apple products. Gerbick then answered that this may be true for me - but that I wasn't the typical consumer (which is right). It was this post of his that made me say how Apple fails to attract larger audiences and stays at a relatively mediocre market share... And that this could be - at least partly - because at least some people find their marketing as repellent as I do.

I find it interesting that you mention the emperor's new clothes. You are aware that this is exactly what people still say about the iPhone in particular? Maybe there's a certain group of people who simply fall for this kind of hype and marketing... The same people who want to have expensive, flashy watches and fast cars with a loud bass so the whole suburb can enjoy their music. But in fighting for these people's "mindshare", let's not forget that there are also those who'd rather die than wearing large golden watches with fake diamonds. Have an offer for them, too.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-08 , 17:46
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#62
Originally Posted by jnwi View Post
Android is receiving more good press because the press can point at specific features, not nebulous concepts.
I like what you say but want to qualify it a bit:

"Android is receiving more good press because the press can point at specific uses, not nebulous concepts."

Nokia tries selling on feature lists and fails. Buyers glaze over at tech specs. They want to know what it DOES, not what it CAN do.
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buurmas is offline buurmas
2010-06-08 , 18:09
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#63
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Nokia tries selling on feature lists and fails. Buyers glaze over at tech specs. They want to know what it DOES, not what it CAN do.
And, better yet, what it DOES WELL as opposed to what you can "get it to do". I've heard it said that code quality can be measured by "WTFs per page" -- in other words, the number of times someone other than the one who created the code will get confused or frustrated while looking at it. Same thing with technological devices, just not per page.
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jnwi is offline jnwi
2010-06-08 , 18:11
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#64
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I like what you say but want to qualify it a bit:

"Android is receiving more good press because the press can point at specific uses, not nebulous concepts."
Yes, that's phrased much better. Thanks.
 
nosa101 is offline nosa101
2010-06-08 , 18:13
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#65
Originally Posted by mymo900 View Post
not being a rude and all. but the benny lad sounds like a tool to me. .
Totally not being rude. Not in the least bit
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-06-08 , 18:21
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#66
Originally Posted by nosa101 View Post
Totally not being rude. Not in the least bit
English isn't my native language. I don't understand much of what's going on here
 
Freemantle is offline Freemantle
2010-06-09 , 00:30
Posts: 94 | Thanked: 44 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#67
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Marketing is the issue in the context of the recent posts in this thread. If you re-read:
I said that not being so aggressive with their marketing is not Nokia's weakness (as suggested by someone else here), but their strength - because I wouldn't buy anything that's so hyped as Apple products. Gerbick then answered that this may be true for me - but that I wasn't the typical consumer (which is right). It was this post of his that made me say how Apple fails to attract larger audiences and stays at a relatively mediocre market share... And that this could be - at least partly - because at least some people find their marketing as repellent as I do.

I find it interesting that you mention the emperor's new clothes. You are aware that this is exactly what people still say about the iPhone in particular? Maybe there's a certain group of people who simply fall for this kind of hype and marketing... The same people who want to have expensive, flashy watches and fast cars with a loud bass so the whole suburb can enjoy their music. But in fighting for these people's "mindshare", let's not forget that there are also those who'd rather die than wearing large golden watches with fake diamonds. Have an offer for them, too.
In the context of the thread, Meego needs some talking points. In the context of the recent posts you mention, then, yes the talking points are all marketing, and as I mentioned, there needs to be something behind the marketing. It may be that a too much is made of hardware that is a little removed from the bleeding edge, it may be that Apple makes out it invented stuff that has been around for years. It may be that the iphone is that beautiful but vacuous blonde you'd spend a night with, but not a lifetime.

However, all i'm suggesting is that maybe that blonde isn't quite so vacuous, maybe there is a personality there as well. Maybe the emperor is wearing some dandy new threads.

Is it possible that after 3 years and 3 generations of iphone, Apple still managed to sell 8.8 million units in the last 3 months, 17.5 million in the last 6 months compared with Nokia's 21.5 million (smartphone and mobile computer sales) over the last year, when there is nothing but bling under the hood?

Marketing may have been the intial hook for a number of people, but if all it is, is bling, you'd have thought that after three years that might have been exposed and sales would have slowed. Nothing has been exposed, sales continue to gain ground.

as I said before, and in the context of marketing, marketing is only a part of the story with the iphone, there are more factors in play than just that.

Nokia need something to market, they need to create something that they can proudly say (whether right or wrong) will change the way things are. Nokia haven't had a product they can say that about for a while now.
 
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acou is offline acou
2010-06-09 , 02:08
Posts: 136 | Thanked: 72 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#68
Originally Posted by mymo900 View Post
not being a rude and all. but the benny lad sounds like a tool to me. openess and free software. look at apple . they made a beautiful working product. be happy with a VW. maybe becuz u cant afford a bugatti. just dont go pissing about on folks who can drive and afford a bugatti. iphone 4 has more to it than marketing. you cant fool ppl on hype these days. if that was the case we would have a 3rd republicans term.
Congrats. This must be either trolloid sarcasm, or the most inconsistent and immature piece of text i read in a long time. I won't even bother to dissect it publicly.

The corporate world loves short-sighted "pragmatists" like you.
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-06-09 , 06:25
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#69
Originally Posted by Freemantle View Post
Is it possible that after 3 years and 3 generations of iphone, Apple still managed to sell 8.8 million units in the last 3 months, 17.5 million in the last 6 months compared with Nokia's 21.5 million (smartphone and mobile computer sales) over the last year, when there is nothing but bling under the hood?
i believe your numbers are wrong. last sales figures i could find (q4/2009) were 126.9 million nokia smartphones vs. 8.7 million apple phones per quarter. (note i don't use the term smartphone here.)

21.5 per year for nokia is wrong i'd say.

sorry that's all wrong - i checked the official reports meanwhile. it seems the blog i got the first numbers from mixed up total device sales and smartphone sales. smartphones for q4 were 15.1 mio. - still the 21.5 per year must be wrong; this number was last given for their q1/2010 smartphone sales.
Last edited by benny1967; 2010-06-09 at 06:56.
 
gerbick
2010-06-09 , 06:31
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#70
What's the breakdown of Nokia Symbian versus Maemo though? The numbers are clumped together with zero separation and to me that's a bit misleading since the only real link between Symbian and Maemo is... Qt and Nokia.

Skewing sales to include Symbian is truly misleading when it's really a comparison of Maemo versus iPhone in my opinion. Or at least one I'd love to see broken down to that level at least once.
 
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