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2008-05-01
, 21:58
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Posts: 3,220 |
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Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#22
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Originally Posted by Gerald
No. Nokia isn't in the least bit interested in HWR and I've all but given up hope to ever have Newton-quality HWR in Linux.
Is there any development on a better hwr implementation? This feature is really needed!
Thanks, Gerald
So I'll keep using PenOffice on my XP tablet until that kicks the bucket, but my next handheld is going to be the unambiguously keyboard-based Pandora. I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another Nokia handheld again; certainly not if they're only interested in becoming yet another iPhone (<spit!>) knockoff.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
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2008-05-01
, 22:06
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#23
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Really, he didn't ask about Newton-quality, he asked about "a better hwr implementation". Unfortunately, that seems to be lacking as well. But it is possible to do better; all I have to do is get enough time, and I'd try to make something better. Could it turn out worse?
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2008-05-02
, 11:53
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#24
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Originally Posted by Benson
Actually... yes. The "HWR" on my Archos PMA430 somehow manages to suck even worse than Meamo's. In its (flimsy) defense, it's quite a lot older than my N800 as well.
Really, he didn't ask about Newton-quality, he asked about "a better hwr implementation". Unfortunately, that seems to be lacking as well. But it is possible to do better; all I have to do is get enough time, and I'd try to make something better. Could it turn out worse?
And I believe there's some sort of threshold involved with HWR appreciation; below it different implementations will only be able to suck less or more; above lies HWR heaven, where you don't even notice you're writing stuff down. The border might be around PenOffice's level. Obviously only Newtons live in heaven.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
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2008-05-02
, 12:18
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Posts: 631 |
Thanked: 1,123 times |
Joined on Sep 2005
@ Helsinki
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#25
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Originally Posted by Benson
HWR is rather tricky also because of the intellectual property right issues: there are _many_ patents held by different companies on various features, and they make it naturally tricky for others to keep on improving the overall experience - you'll just start breaking the patents.
Really, he didn't ask about Newton-quality, he asked about "a better hwr implementation". Unfortunately, that seems to be lacking as well. But it is possible to do better; all I have to do is get enough time, and I'd try to make something better. Could it turn out worse?
(You can look it the other way round, if it would be easy to do, then there would almost certainly be already good open source alternatives available, since there is is the need...)
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2008-05-02
, 12:26
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#26
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I seriously think that good handwriting recognition is not all that necessary. What IS needed is a really good app for notetaking when you recognize your OWN handwriting. The best app now for that is probably Xournal; the only problem if you are taking notes quickly in a class would be that it would be too much trouble to keep starting a new page. You should just have an extremely long page to work with so you can take an hour or so's worth of notes without starting a new page.
Then, after the lecture is over , you can reread your notes, organize them better, and put them in Notecase or something if you want to make them permanent.
Then, after the lecture is over , you can reread your notes, organize them better, and put them in Notecase or something if you want to make them permanent.
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2008-05-02
, 13:11
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#27
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Originally Posted by ragnar
I've lost the bookmark, but a few years ago someone wrote on one of the Linux HWR projects that he had developed a natural handwriting algorithm which he would like to "inject" into that particular project (I'm thinking it was X-stroke, but it could have been any of the others). So there was at least one "free" algorithm around.
HWR is rather tricky also because of the intellectual property right issues: there are _many_ patents held by different companies on various features, and they make it naturally tricky for others to keep on improving the overall experience - you'll just start breaking the patents.
(You can look it the other way round, if it would be easy to do, then there would almost certainly be already good open source alternatives available, since there is is the need...)
Basically, any HWR that's worth its musterd is going to use a neural network for recognition, coupled with good dictionaries. The only IP is in the preconfigured NN's "knowledge", nobody can stop you from setting up and distributing your own training.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
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2008-05-02
, 13:23
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#28
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Originally Posted by geneven
If that's what you want, buy some paper and a pencil, because a computer-based notepad is not going to give you any significant advantage over the old-school solution.
I seriously think that good handwriting recognition is not all that necessary. What IS needed is a really good app for notetaking when you recognize your OWN handwriting. The best app now for that is probably Xournal; the only problem if you are taking notes quickly in a class would be that it would be too much trouble to keep starting a new page. You should just have an extremely long page to work with so you can take an hour or so's worth of notes without starting a new page.
Then, after the lecture is over , you can reread your notes, organize them better, and put them in Notecase or something if you want to make them permanent.
I know this for certain, because the good old Newton allowed you to enter notes in "digital ink", and I tried this. Trust me, it is not good. You'll end up squinting at a low-res version of your own handwriting, on a petite screen where you have to scroll every five seconds. You can't insert text easily on the fly, corrections are a b*tch, repositioning text is nigh-on impossible. At least Newton ink had one advantage: A cursor. If enabled, ink text could be scribbled everywhere on the screen, but would be inserted at the current cursor position. I'm not sure if Xournal can do that, but if not, you're going to squint even more, trying to get the ink where you want it to go.
Luckily, Newtons recognize my handwriting almost as quickly as I scribble it down; I can write big or small, the text is allways converted into the same easily readable font; I can correct or insert text using simple, intuitive gestures and copy-paste is a straightforward select-and-drag.
And best of all, I end up with notes that I can still decypher six months later.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
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2008-05-04
, 23:39
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Posts: 225 |
Thanked: 81 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
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#29
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I just got my N800 yesterday, and so have had limited time to play around with it, but one of the things I'm hoping for is a OneNote like application for the Nokia. By this I mean a program that allows you to take notes using either a keyboard or hwr...but easily insert a drawn diagram in the middle of the flow. Is this something that Xournal is used for? If not is there another program that would be good for this?
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2008-05-05
, 01:38
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Posts: 1,950 |
Thanked: 1,174 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Seattle, USA
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#30
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Originally Posted by dylanemcgregor
Yes. and apparently MaemopadPlus, too.
I just got my N800 yesterday, and so have had limited time to play around with it, but one of the things I'm hoping for is a OneNote like application for the Nokia. By this I mean a program that allows you to take notes using either a keyboard or hwr...but easily insert a drawn diagram in the middle of the flow. Is this something that Xournal is used for? If not is there another program that would be good for this?
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Eleven years ago, I owned a Apple Newton 2100 and - after a little bit of training - the handwriting recognition just worked for me. Close to perfect. It was much better than hwr on the N800. I am very disappointed about the implementation. Nokia / Maemo should do better!
Is there any development on a better hwr implementation? This feature is really needed!
Thanks, Gerald