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smarsh is offline smarsh
2010-01-26 , 12:58
Posts: 155 | Thanked: 118 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Ontario, Canada
#31
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Hehe, well, Talk is a forum.

As soon as we get 3.4 installed we can look more closely at changing the bug form UI to be more friendly. Moving the comment box, adding the guided submission form, etc. I'd like to see the bug voting system made more obvious and straightforward, since that's how we want people telling us they experience the bug (rather than commenting).
Now, that makes sense and I'd welcome it with open arms.

How can I help?
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jaark is offline jaark
2010-01-26 , 13:00
Posts: 316 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on May 2006
#32
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Hehe, well, Talk is a forum.
Aye, I suppose the problem is that many users spot the similarity of interface but miss the fundamental difference between Bugzilla and a forum.

FWIW, I also caught the flippancy and sarcasm in the original post as a humourous hook into a serious subject. I'm also from the Eastern side of the pond and it appealed to my sense of humour.

I don't know any Finnish jokes
 
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-26 , 13:01
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#33
Originally Posted by smarsh View Post
I take your point, although I didn't read the post like that at all. In fact, I saw an attempt to engage the community via the time-honoured British tradition of sarcastic humour. It has the effect of engaging, encouraging critical thought, and, yes, pissing people off. (It's possible I misread the sarcasm bit, but this is how I read it anyway - I'm a Brit after all)
Unfortunately many people will, and the result is usually a higher initial level of tension and increased likeliness for things to spiral down the drain more quickly.

Originally Posted by smarsh View Post
But, here's the thing. If you're overworked, surely using the community to provide help is the way to try to solve the problem? If you agree it is, what's the best way?
Conning people into triaging isn't an easy task. Basically, though, triagers are always going to be overworked. Only a certain percentage of a community has the drive and the interest to pitch in triaging a bug tracker. It's generally thankless, difficult work that doesn't generate much karma (only comments and new bugs generate karma). So as a community grows, its base of triagers tends to grow proportionally. Artificially increasing it through activism is usually only effective in the short term.
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jaark is offline jaark
2010-01-26 , 13:02
Posts: 316 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on May 2006
#34
Also add my support for making bug voting more obvious.

Also, is there scope for a talk thread to be created alongside and linked to a bug - you could then have a nice obvious 'discuss this bug <here>' link near the big voting buttons (I know a bugs forum has been discussed, but this is subtly different ).
 
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2010-01-26 , 13:05
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#35
Originally Posted by smarsh View Post
How can I help?
For now we're blocking on Karsten getting all of the software patched up for the upgrade (Nokia isn't releasing him for nearly enough hours . . .). If you happen to be intimately familiar with Bugzilla (particularly versions 2.2 and 3.4), then once I manage to get him to put up a public VCS you're welcome to start poking at it.

If not, be thinking about friendly-making UI improvements.
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-26 , 13:07
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#36
Originally Posted by jaark View Post
Also add my support for making bug voting more obvious.

Also, is there scope for a talk thread to be created alongside and linked to a bug - you could then have a nice obvious 'discuss this bug <here>' link near the big voting buttons (I know a bugs forum has been discussed, but this is subtly different ).
There are ways to do that (the URL field is really only used for the browser stuff, and then only infrequently). We could probably make a proper system for it, although I'm hesitant to divide the discussion over two locations like that.
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smarsh's Avatar
smarsh is offline smarsh
2010-01-26 , 13:14
Posts: 155 | Thanked: 118 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Ontario, Canada
#37
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
For now we're blocking on Karsten getting all of the software patched up for the upgrade (Nokia isn't releasing him for nearly enough hours . . .). If you happen to be intimately familiar with Bugzilla (particularly versions 2.2 and 3.4), then once I manage to get him to put up a public VCS you're welcome to start poking at it.

If not, be thinking about friendly-making UI improvements.
I'm not intimately familiar with a great many things, but I have thought intimately about users. I'll re-examine bugzilla in that light, and if anyone wants to help, PM me, or post suggestions such as those coming in here, to this thread .

How's that sound? I commit to working toward community-based suggestions for user-focused improvements in the next few weeks.

S
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jaark is offline jaark
2010-01-26 , 13:15
Posts: 316 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on May 2006
#38
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
I'm hesitant to divide the discussion over two locations like that.
Normally I would agree with you, but it is clear that things can break down catastrophically here. The USSD thing is a case in point. So much discussion and argument within the bug report is worse than having a two-tiered information source. Hopefully the information would remain in bugzilla in a more 'distilled' form and people participating in the discussion side of things could direct any useful info arising there to the bug report. The important thing is a 1-1 relationship between the bug entry and the discussion thread.

Another thing that could help (again drawing from the USSD stuff) is a clear and prominent description of the various states (many people seemed confused by the term 'FIXED') - and to go with that many some sort of profile option to turn off such description displays from those who value our scree real-estate
 
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2010-01-26 , 13:17
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#39
Originally Posted by smarsh View Post
I'm not intimately familiar with a great many things, but I have thought intimately about users. I'll re-examine bugzilla in that light, and if anyone wants to help, PM me, or post suggestions such as those coming in here, to this thread .
Mockups much appreciated! If I can get Karsten to put that VCS up I'll start digging into the meat and seeing where I can get.

To give you a general sort of idea of the sort of thing we're looking at, see the existing guided form (which kind of sucks).

Originally Posted by smarsh View Post
How's that sound? I commit to working toward community-based suggestions for user-focused improvements in the next few weeks.
Great!
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Ryan Abel
 
jaark is offline jaark
2010-01-26 , 13:19
Posts: 316 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on May 2006
#40
I'll throw out suggestions but you really don't want UI mockup from me - I think that vi is friendly enough
 
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