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The N900 is now 15 years old! (9)
to Nokia N900 by Arno_11 - 17 hrs, 7 mins ago -
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2009-05-27
, 12:06
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Posts: 258 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on May 2009
@ Paris France
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#552
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A complete line with a Maemo phone, a Maemo pocket tablet (4 to 5") a Maemo bigger tablet (7") and a Maemo netbook would be nice ...
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Ok, please, let me dream ...
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Ok, please, let me dream ...
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2009-05-27
, 12:10
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#553
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Originally Posted by Benson
Yes, you should be excited.
So I should be excited because... this thing (which, hypothetically, I really don't like that much) will be more popular with everyone else? I'm not one of those people who gets excited about "Is it the year of Linux on The Desktop?" either -- I buy my gadgets to please myself, and I'm not going to be excited about some gadget just because other people like it, or dismayed just because they don't.
While wider uptake is certainly good news for Maemo's continued development, if it appears that's because Maemo is moving away from what I want in a tablet, it's not going to do me much good, so it's not making me excited.
We like tablets, but commercially they are an unproven, perhaps perpetually niche, market. Like it or not (and I don't, personally), the future of tablets at Nokia is tied to Maemo. By pulling together a great number of resources under the Maemo platform, that increases the chances that there will be a tablet in the future. By producing a cell phone that uses Maemo, but has broad market appeal, there will be large volumes of sales, which means revenue, which means financial stability for the Maemo platform. Read Peter's post #531. Yes, the tablet form factor may be overshadowed by Maemo and by a different device, but Nokia is not necessarily moving away from it.
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2009-05-27
, 12:20
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#554
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Originally Posted by totololo
I'm not sure about the netbook and the 7"-device... the Maemo 5 user interface elements would be frighteningly large on these.
A complete line with a Maemo phone, a Maemo pocket tablet (4 to 5") a Maemo bigger tablet (7") and a Maemo netbook would be nice ...
Hardware-wise, tough, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Archos does exactly that. They have a lineup from 1.8" to 7" (including the 4.3" and 5" sweet spots), and nobody's talking about "niche markets" and "consumers don't want that" when they see their products.
Maybe with the Moblin UI instead of the upcoming Maemo UI, this sort of devices would be a dream. (I'm stressing "UI" here, beneath the UI Maemo is great. Moblin too, probably, I don't know how far they are apart, anyway... there are many familiar boxes in the Moblin Core overview)
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2009-05-27
, 12:25
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Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#555
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Originally Posted by bergie
I have even been reading ebooks on a 352x416 Nokia E70. No matter how you format them, smaller screen either makes you squint or taxes your fingers by forcing you to scroll. This is a hard limitation that cannot be avoided by any amount of formatting.
I've been reading e-books quite happily with Stanza for iPhone, even though the iPhone has much smaller screen and lower resolution than my N810. The big point here is formatting the books correctly, not the screen size.
Now, I do have a few ideas about making FBReader more usable on a physically smaller display, both by zooming parts of the text above your finger touching it and by scrolling text when your finger reaches bottom of the screen and/or you tilt the device. These ideas (if FBReader guys choose to implement them of course) will ease the pain of reading books on N900. But having a bigger screen would obviously make things better.
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2009-05-27
, 12:31
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#556
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Here's the problem as I see it:
How many iphone users do you know that are active in an iphone community? Most of the ones I know just use their iphone, they don't get in online forums and discuss, test, develop, etc. Even if the maemo phone gets a large market share (which I doubt, there is a lot of competition in that market), many of the users will be just that: users. People that are unlikely to join the community. I don't think we'll see a large influx of new community members, sure there will be some, but not a lot.
I also think the smaller screen lends itself to a different class of applications. Many of the applications I use would have a very different user experience on a smaller screen. Some of them may not even have been ported/developed or be too cumbersome to be interesting. Lack of a stylus on the smaller screen will play a large role in the type of programs developed.
On the whole, a larger market share may not have as beneficial impact as some believe.
How many iphone users do you know that are active in an iphone community? Most of the ones I know just use their iphone, they don't get in online forums and discuss, test, develop, etc. Even if the maemo phone gets a large market share (which I doubt, there is a lot of competition in that market), many of the users will be just that: users. People that are unlikely to join the community. I don't think we'll see a large influx of new community members, sure there will be some, but not a lot.
I also think the smaller screen lends itself to a different class of applications. Many of the applications I use would have a very different user experience on a smaller screen. Some of them may not even have been ported/developed or be too cumbersome to be interesting. Lack of a stylus on the smaller screen will play a large role in the type of programs developed.
On the whole, a larger market share may not have as beneficial impact as some believe.
__________________
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
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2009-05-27
, 12:33
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#557
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Last night, I tried using my N810 exclusively in windowed mode (which is ~3.5"). I surfed a page, did a little command line hacking, listened to some tunes, and watched a movie. I found that the reduction in screen size (and resolution) was TRIVIAL and did not in any discernible way affect my enjoyment with these tasks. Of course this is personal experience.
When you think about it, given the specs the N900 has gained much more functionality than it has had removed. We can now surf in the park, take pictures of our friends, light our way with the camera flash (flashlight app, which is sure to come), enjoy content on a big external screen, enjoy a higher performance environment, take and make calls, and to what we could do before. A reduction in screen prevents none of these possibilities.
The only potential removal of functionality is the stylus, but the jury's still out on weather the device will be capacitive or resistive.
I suspect that the community will come to understand this, and love the N900. Besides the increase in capability, the only thing that's likely changed is the device name and its descriptor.
YARR!
}:^)~
HugsCorrupt
When you think about it, given the specs the N900 has gained much more functionality than it has had removed. We can now surf in the park, take pictures of our friends, light our way with the camera flash (flashlight app, which is sure to come), enjoy content on a big external screen, enjoy a higher performance environment, take and make calls, and to what we could do before. A reduction in screen prevents none of these possibilities.
The only potential removal of functionality is the stylus, but the jury's still out on weather the device will be capacitive or resistive.
I suspect that the community will come to understand this, and love the N900. Besides the increase in capability, the only thing that's likely changed is the device name and its descriptor.
YARR!
}:^)~
HugsCorrupt
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2009-05-27
, 12:47
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#558
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Originally Posted by SD69
Some common sense at last, thanks :-)
Yes, you should be excited.
We like tablets, but commercially they are an unproven, perhaps perpetually niche, market. Like it or not (and I don't, personally), the future of tablets at Nokia is tied to Maemo. By pulling together a great number of resources under the Maemo platform, that increases the chances that there will be a tablet in the future. By producing a cell phone that uses Maemo, but has broad market appeal, there will be large volumes of sales, which means revenue, which means financial stability for the Maemo platform. Read Peter's post #531. Yes, the tablet form factor may be overshadowed by Maemo and by a different device, but Nokia is not necessarily moving away from it.
Peter is really trying to help us out here, with very large writing between the lines, which I interpreted the same way you did :
Maemo needs to move up from an experimental skunkworks operation in a dark corner inside Nokia, and become an integrated, bone fida Business Unit. Thus it needs to prove its mettle and sustain itself : at Nokia, that means selling units, lots of units, preferrably making some money along the way.
Nokia and the general consumer public being what they currently are, that probably means putting Maemo under the mass market spotlight by way of a Maemo smartphone.
Maybe a few hundred vocal, hardcore veterans on ItT/Tmo (me included, perhaps) will pass on that device because it is not a "true" Internet tablet in their eyes. But that is not a problem, not the issue : if, on the other hand, Nokia moves millions of those gizmos to the iPhone/Pre/Android target crowd (which doesn't buy Internet tablets), it means securing Maemo's continued livelihood, more developpers, more apps, more third-party deals (remember Flash and Skype ?)...
It may actually be the only chance that the new Maemo BU could maintain that little project on the side, building on maemo's new fame and its own autonomy : a more confidential, non-phone offer for the enthusiast crowd -- sort of like an Internet tablet.
Maybe I'm reading too much in there but it seems to make a lot of real-world, economic sense. Anyway, as I've already said, I'm prepared to give it time and see it through. Meanwhile, shooting the very people who bring us what little information they're allowed to provide... is not going to get us anywhere :-)
Last edited by fpp; 2009-05-27 at 12:49.
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2009-05-27
, 12:48
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Posts: 844 |
Thanked: 521 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ UK southampton
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#559
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Well all this talk about the will they wont they release a tablet.
Quote
"But what struck me during Vanjoki’s presentation was the realization that the N810 was the third of five in this product line that Nokia is in the process of releasing over several years. The first, the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, was launched in May of 2005. It was targeted at “named super geeks;” the company’s goal was to sell a mere two thousand of them to specific users. The sequel, the N800, was launched in January of this year and was targeted at a somewhat broader geek segment — “prosumers” who are early adopters.
According to Tom Dunmore of Stuff.tv, around 300,000 of the earlier models were sold (surpassing the company’s projections.) But to hear Vanjoki tell it, selling units wasn’t the point."
Acourding to this review of the 2007 web 2.0 summit and internet tablets in general.
Quote
"But what struck me during Vanjoki’s presentation was the realization that the N810 was the third of five in this product line that Nokia is in the process of releasing over several years. The first, the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, was launched in May of 2005. It was targeted at “named super geeks;” the company’s goal was to sell a mere two thousand of them to specific users. The sequel, the N800, was launched in January of this year and was targeted at a somewhat broader geek segment — “prosumers” who are early adopters.
According to Tom Dunmore of Stuff.tv, around 300,000 of the earlier models were sold (surpassing the company’s projections.) But to hear Vanjoki tell it, selling units wasn’t the point."
Acourding to this review of the 2007 web 2.0 summit and internet tablets in general.
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2009-05-27
, 12:52
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#560
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Really with data and voice? That'd explain oFone, but it seems early result then. Also, what type of screen, capacitive or resistive? Stylus? Dpad? Not mentioned does not mean it is there yes/no.
I think this is an exciting development, I'm looking forward to see how this competes with iPhone, Android, and Nokia N97. A Linux phone implies also certain features like PIM. Think of this: would this be the device you'd carry around to give you most features you need, and also function as a flexible gateway for other devices like a netbook/laptop/dap/digital_camera? And add to that being able to export the screen to another device? For me this would be definately a candidate.
Hmm, and, what is the other device? A netbook?
I really hope its not tied to T-Mobile. I don't like their coverage here, and I'm already on a good Vodafone contract without being tied to SIM. So I could switch from Nokia E71 to Nokia N900 right away if I could buy a Nokia N900 unbranded without SIMlock.
If you want to hack around this you can still use screen and then create 2 splitted windows. Works great with something like tail -f.
You could on Nokia N900 use an external screen instead. The power of a device like this lies in being easily able to extend its features (e.g. synchronisation, UPnP, USB). An example of that is a dumb device with a screen which only outputs what it gets from input (e.g. Nokia N900). This should not be too expensive while the format of the main device (Nokia N900) remains mobile & portable. In the future, it might even be interesting if it can be combined with one of those foldable screens.
I think this is an exciting development, I'm looking forward to see how this competes with iPhone, Android, and Nokia N97. A Linux phone implies also certain features like PIM. Think of this: would this be the device you'd carry around to give you most features you need, and also function as a flexible gateway for other devices like a netbook/laptop/dap/digital_camera? And add to that being able to export the screen to another device? For me this would be definately a candidate.
Hmm, and, what is the other device? A netbook?
I really hope its not tied to T-Mobile. I don't like their coverage here, and I'm already on a good Vodafone contract without being tied to SIM. So I could switch from Nokia E71 to Nokia N900 right away if I could buy a Nokia N900 unbranded without SIMlock.
Originally Posted by mullf
It isn't gone, it is far less useful. There is also notification if I understood correct, so that becomes your new starting point.
Yes, my immediate response to the specs is about the screen size. I always use full-screen for my apps. That's gone now. There is no full-screen anymore.
If you want to hack around this you can still use screen and then create 2 splitted windows. Works great with something like tail -f.
Originally Posted by fms
eading e-books is a niche, and I don't understand your workflow. You want a mobile device to be used as an e-book reader, then (for lots of reading) your screen is indeed too small in this and many other mobile hardware cases. But how would a slightly bigger screen (Nokia N8x0) compete with something like a Kindle or a netbook? Do you think that the general public will consider a device with a screen like Nokia N8x0 with a device with a screen like a Kindle for reading? And, do you think that people who enjoy e-book reading on an iPhone would not enjoy this on Nokia N900?
I have even been reading ebooks on a 352x416 Nokia E70. No matter how you format them, smaller screen either makes you squint or taxes your fingers by forcing you to scroll. This is a hard limitation that cannot be avoided by any amount of formatting.
Now, I do have a few ideas about making FBReader more usable on a physically smaller display, both by zooming parts of the text above your finger touching it and by scrolling text when your finger reaches bottom of the screen and/or you tilt the device. These ideas (if FBReader guys choose to implement them of course) will ease the pain of reading books on N900. But having a bigger screen would obviously make things better.
You could on Nokia N900 use an external screen instead. The power of a device like this lies in being easily able to extend its features (e.g. synchronisation, UPnP, USB). An example of that is a dumb device with a screen which only outputs what it gets from input (e.g. Nokia N900). This should not be too expensive while the format of the main device (Nokia N900) remains mobile & portable. In the future, it might even be interesting if it can be combined with one of those foldable screens.
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| Tags |
| disapointed by nokia, dpad, maemo phone, my tablet is crying, n900, nokia gets it wrong, openmoko, rover, rx-51, rx-71 needed, screen size, smartphone, t-mobile |
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I'm like you: I will buy the device that most pleasing, but I wouldn't be so quick to remove the size of the community from that equation.
YARR!
}:^)~
Capt'n=Corrupt^2
Last edited by Capt'n Corrupt; 2009-05-27 at 12:02.