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2011-05-19
, 20:41
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#2
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I'm not sure I entirely agree with some of their assessments and perceptions, but you can't argue the numbers and outcomes.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2011-05-19
, 20:57
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#3
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I don't really get the purpose of the focus on WP7 sales - it's been out a matter of months and is still in its first incarnation, excluding the copy/paste update because that didn't do much of anything. If you look at the numbers for Android's first quarter no one would have suggested it'd be this big, nor would Symbian's numbers 2 years ago suggest they'd be this low now. We need to give things time to take ahold in the market, notwithstanding the fact that most people are on contracts, and given most contracts are 18-24 months, an accurate picture of consumer interest won't be derived 6 months after release. And quite frankly, i would expect Q2 and Q3 sales to be pretty bad, because i imagine most WP7 fans will want the Nokia ones for the superior hardware and the distinct possibility they'll be getting extra features that HTC and Samsung won't. Put another way: if i had the choice of HTC, Samsung, Dell and Nokia all running the exact same software, i'd choose Nokia every time.
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2011-05-19
, 21:06
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#4
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Originally Posted by richwhite
First off, because it's not a first incarnation. Windows Mobile has been around since April 19, 2000; 11 years ago (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile) and has been crippled inexplicably along the way--a lot this last time around--and hasn't made a lot of fans along the way. Windows Phone 7 is only the latest in a series of the same line and it's doing terribly compared to its competition who had FAR less time to make a mobile OS and grow them.
I don't really get the purpose of the focus on WP7 sales - it's been out a matter of months and is still in its first incarnation, excluding the copy/paste update because that didn't do much of anything. If you look at the numbers for Android's first quarter no one would have suggested it'd be this big, nor would Symbian's numbers 2 years ago suggest they'd be this low now. We need to give things time to take ahold in the market, notwithstanding the fact that most people are on contracts, and given most contracts are 18-24 months, an accurate picture of consumer interest won't be derived 6 months after release. And quite frankly, i would expect Q2 and Q3 sales to be pretty bad, because i imagine most WP7 fans will want the Nokia ones for the superior hardware and the distinct possibility they'll be getting extra features that HTC and Samsung won't. Put another way: if i had the choice of HTC, Samsung, Dell and Nokia all running the exact same software, i'd choose Nokia every time.
Nokia, similarly, has been churning out phones for a long time now.. and their latest incarnations are failing to live up to expectations and sales compared to relative newcomers.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2011-05-19
, 21:38
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#5
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Originally Posted by danramos
Doesn't mean jack. Unlike comparing S^3 to S^1, WP7 and WinMo are entirely different beasts. In fact, it's much more like comparing Maemo 5 and Symbian. The only similarity with WP7 and WinMo is MS being the creator; WP7 is a whole new OS, built from the ground up, with a vastly different interface and way of navigation. I used WinMo, it was so bad i used it only for a week and WP7 has already been a month. WinMo tried to be Windows on a phone, WP7 is a phone OS made by MS. So yes, it is the first incarnation of this OS.
First off, because it's not a first incarnation. Windows Mobile has been around since April 19, 2000; 11 years ago (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile) and has been crippled inexplicably along the way--a lot this last time around--and hasn't made a lot of fans along the way. Windows Phone 7 is only the latest in a series of the same line and it's doing terribly compared to its competition who had FAR less time to make a mobile OS and grow them.
Nokia, similarly, has been churning out phones for a long time now.. and their latest incarnations are failing to live up to expectations and sales compared to relative newcomers.
Nokia, you're right, but what does that have to do with anything? And a large part of that is the rise of American software with iOS and Android, a part of the world where Nokia never had much presence. With iOS and Android came the American bloggers raving about it, and slamming Symbian was par the course because it was simply never big there. Nokia didn't help themselves with a total lack of advertising and telling consumers what the devices did and still do that others don't. But my fiancee certainly isn't the first person to leave the iPhone for an N8 and see what she's been missing feature-wise.Although my first question remains, what does Nokia's underachievement in sales have to do with WP7 not steaming out the gates within its first 6 months? These things all take time.
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2011-05-19
, 21:44
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#6
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Originally Posted by richwhite
It's an interesting sign of just how out-of-touch Microsoft is that it thinks adding "Windows" to the name of a new OS makes it more attractive to consumers.
[...]
WinMo tried to be Windows on a phone, WP7 is a phone OS made by MS. So yes, it is the first incarnation of this OS.
[...]
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2011-05-19
, 21:50
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#7
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Originally Posted by richwhite
Clearly, we don't agree on how to interpret this information and the validity of these comparisons. I'm simply taking the interpretation that many in the industry are interpreting from the longstanding history of these lines of products. Trying to re-re-interpret the data doesn't seem to make a difference in this case. Windows Phone 7 is a failing platform by any standard--even comparing it to Android's earliest forays with the G1 and Apple's first forays into the 1st gen iPhone and even RIM's first blackberries.
Doesn't mean jack. Unlike comparing S^3 to S^1, WP7 and WinMo are entirely different beasts. In fact, it's much more like comparing Maemo 5 and Symbian. The only similarity with WP7 and WinMo is MS being the creator; WP7 is a whole new OS, built from the ground up, with a vastly different interface and way of navigation. I used WinMo, it was so bad i used it only for a week and WP7 has already been a month. WinMo tried to be Windows on a phone, WP7 is a phone OS made by MS. So yes, it is the first incarnation of this OS.
Nokia, you're right, but what does that have to do with anything? And a large part of that is the rise of American software with iOS and Android, a part of the world where Nokia never had much presence. With iOS and Android came the American bloggers raving about it, and slamming Symbian was par the course because it was simply never big there. Nokia didn't help themselves with a total lack of advertising and telling consumers what the devices did and still do that others don't. But my fiancee certainly isn't the first person to leave the iPhone for an N8 and see what she's been missing feature-wise.Although my first question remains, what does Nokia's underachievement in sales have to do with WP7 not steaming out the gates within its first 6 months? These things all take time.
Granted, as you admit yourself, Nokia never could understand how to penetrate the American market. The problem for Nokia now is that the American market is easily making in-roads to the markets that Nokia used to understand. It would seem that Nokia's niche markets are becoming far less loyal to Nokia than they expected and the less-than-enthuastic roll-outs are making it that much easier for others to come in and win the loyalty over to their brands.
Arguing that your fiancee dumped an iPhone for an N8, by the way... classy debate kills, lad! Classy! Ever heard of "anecdotal evidence?" I'm sure she's no the only, nor the last, to do that but based on these numbers she's far and away in a statistic minority.
Putting these two together isn't really a winning combination.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2011-05-19
, 21:58
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@ SF Bay Area
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#8
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Originally Posted by richwhite
Well, no. The "W" at the beginning of both of the OS names stands for Windows.
Doesn't mean jack. Unlike comparing S^3 to S^1, WP7 and WinMo are entirely different beasts.
Those of us who breathe this stuff in and out just like air know they are really different beasts. The vast majority of people see Microsoft, Windows and one version of the OS is simply a revision of the previous version.
The time it's going to take is the time it will take to change that perception - a whole different task to growing the market for a new, fresh off the presses, OS.
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2011-05-19
, 22:00
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@ London
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#9
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Originally Posted by danramos
I don't think windows mobile 6 and 7 share a single line of code.
First off, because it's not a first incarnation. Windows Mobile has been around since April 19, 2000; 11 years ago (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile) and has been crippled inexplicably along the way--a lot this last time around--and hasn't made a lot of fans along the way. Windows Phone 7 is only the latest in a series of the same line and it's doing terribly compared to its competition who had FAR less time to make a mobile OS and grow them.
And certainly not the spirit. That's for good or bad, but Windows phone 7 really is a new OS.
Though I agree that microsoft reputation is not as new and white.
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2011-05-19
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#10
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Originally Posted by danramos
On the fiancee point, i was referring directly to Nokia's lack of advertising - she's American, where anything not Android or iPhone is not a smartphone, Nokia are considered dumb phones that do nothing. All of a sudden she's got a phone with widgets, social integration, FM transmitter, bluetooth transfers, HDMI, USB OTG and so on. I've been visiting here for 6 months and literally have met no one who knows Nokia do this, or have heard of an FM transmitter. Now, can you imagine Apple having features no other device has and not telling people? No.
Clearly, we don't agree on how to interpret this information and the validity of these comparisons. I'm simply taking the interpretation that many in the industry are interpreting from the longstanding history of these lines of products. Trying to re-re-interpret the data doesn't seem to make a difference in this case. Windows Phone 7 is a failing platform by any standard--even comparing it to Android's earliest forays with the G1 and Apple's first forays into the 1st gen iPhone and even RIM's first blackberries.
Granted, as you admit yourself, Nokia never could understand how to penetrate the American market. The problem for Nokia now is that the American market is easily making in-roads to the markets that Nokia used to understand. It would seem that Nokia's niche markets are becoming far less loyal to Nokia than they expected and the less-than-enthuastic roll-outs are making it that much easier for others to come in and win the loyalty over to their brands.
Arguing that your fiancee dumped an iPhone for an N8, by the way... classy debate kills, lad! Classy! Ever heard of "anecdotal evidence?" I'm sure she's no the only, nor the last, to do that but based on these numbers she's far and away in a statistic minority.
Putting these two together isn't really a winning combination.
Sure, WP7 isn't doing well, i'm not arguing that. What i am arguing is that it's far too early to say that low sales now mean it won't succeed. It's the new kid on the block, many people are tied into contracts, many are waiting for updates and so on. When Android first came out people didn't have such high expectations of a phone. When BB came out it was popular for its impressive emails. To enter the smartphone arena now when people already have good emails and other great software features is never going to be an instant hit like it was 5 years ago.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 23:49.
Nokia hasn't yet said when its Windows smartphone will arrive. The company won't divulge ship dates until closer to when the first models arrive, but the pressure is on to deliver the devices this year, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said when the company announced its first quarter results.
In the long term, Nokia's backing will accelerate Windows Phone's momentum, Gartner wrote. Nokia needs to make consumers forget that they are buying a Windows phone, because the current perception is that Microsoft is something dad uses at work, according to Carolina Milanesi, research vice president at Gartner.
..."
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...globally_in_Q1