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IcyMoustache |
2011-07-19
, 01:52
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Posts: 161 |
Thanked: 186 times |
Joined on Apr 2011
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#411
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*the (typing from N900)
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2011-07-19
, 02:11
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Posts: 568 |
Thanked: 969 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Toronto
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#412
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Originally Posted by IcyMoustache
You know there's an Edit function right? Also works from N900
*the (typing from N900)
It's been said before, but ecosystem (which is a real word which has been lifted from biology, a field where it actually means something) in this context does in fact equal locking down.
As ysss pointed out, making money from open standards is hard. But unless you're on the MSFT board or a major institutional shareholder, why would you be in favour of this "tight integration" BS? What possible benefit is there to you the consumer? The same things can be achieved with open standards without trapping your cash!
Yes, some devs make money from the Fruit Store and Android Marketplace... but most do not in fact make a fat stack of cash. It's actually Steve J and friends who benefit most. So if you wish to slam open standards, please don't play that card.
__________________
tinfoilhat.dll: Trojan horse detected
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Last edited by shallimus; 2011-07-19 at 02:14.
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2011-07-19
, 02:36
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Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#413
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Originally Posted by jo21
This is where I have a problem. Microsoft Windows Phone 7 sales numbers do not lie. It's not a big seller at all.
@gerick, board of directors is american blindfold one, the company success looks like more smart engineering from way on below them, rather their execution.
So with that said, it's just bad management.
Originally Posted by icymoustache
McKinsey... same Enron, Kmart, Swissair, and Global Crossing McKinsey?
the board of directors fell prey to years of brainwashing by the likes of McKinsey (who painted visions of future involving profit made from ecosystem vs profits from a free open OS.) Obviously that was biased given 5he consultants' own experience.
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2011-07-19
, 02:38
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Posts: 568 |
Thanked: 969 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Toronto
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#414
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Originally Posted by gerbick
I'm checking stock tickers and market news for these companies, but apparently they don't exist. Stop making up stuff to scare us!
This is where I have a problem. Microsoft Windows Phone 7 sales numbers do not lie. It's not a big seller at all.
So with that said, it's just bad management.
McKinsey... same Enron, Kmart, Swissair, and Global Crossing McKinsey?
(Yep, that McKinsey)
__________________
tinfoilhat.dll: Trojan horse detected
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
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2011-07-19
, 02:44
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Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#415
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Originally Posted by shallimus
WHOA!! I did not even know... wow.
(Yep, that McKinsey)
That... explains it all. Holy damn.
If Elop is a trojan, McKinsey is straight cancer.
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2011-07-19
, 03:14
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Posts: 619 |
Thanked: 691 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#416
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>> What possible benefit is there to you the consumer? The same things can be achieved with open standards without trapping your cash!
This is one of those "men are from venus and women are from mars" moments.
For the upteemth time - consumers dont give a SH1T what about open vs closed. They CANT be in FAVOR of "closed", because they dont know the difference. All else being equal, they will not buy the product with the "CLOSED" sticker rather then the "OPEN" sticker (and vice versa).
All they care about is this - they pay X $$$ to get Y if they like Y.
They will support companies that give them stuff they want for $$$, REGARDLESS of whether it comes from a CLOSED or OPEN philosophy.
Mainstream consumers will NOT actively fight for "Open" as they have enough **** to deal with in their everyday lives without getting into some abstract geeky religious war.
Getting mindshare in this day and age is hard enough - trying to get mindshare with an anti-sexy concept like FOSS is like tilting at windmills. I have better things to do with my life.
You want to push OPEN ? Start a company that releases products that embody a standard - if you can get these products to really SELL, others will start to follow (accessories, apps whatever) and as the controller of that standard, you can then OPEN it or whatever.
All else is empty hot air is whining about the lack of JUUUSSSTICE(tm) in this world.
This is one of those "men are from venus and women are from mars" moments.
For the upteemth time - consumers dont give a SH1T what about open vs closed. They CANT be in FAVOR of "closed", because they dont know the difference. All else being equal, they will not buy the product with the "CLOSED" sticker rather then the "OPEN" sticker (and vice versa).
All they care about is this - they pay X $$$ to get Y if they like Y.
They will support companies that give them stuff they want for $$$, REGARDLESS of whether it comes from a CLOSED or OPEN philosophy.
Mainstream consumers will NOT actively fight for "Open" as they have enough **** to deal with in their everyday lives without getting into some abstract geeky religious war.
Getting mindshare in this day and age is hard enough - trying to get mindshare with an anti-sexy concept like FOSS is like tilting at windmills. I have better things to do with my life.
You want to push OPEN ? Start a company that releases products that embody a standard - if you can get these products to really SELL, others will start to follow (accessories, apps whatever) and as the controller of that standard, you can then OPEN it or whatever.
All else is empty hot air is whining about the lack of JUUUSSSTICE(tm) in this world.
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2011-07-19
, 04:04
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Posts: 568 |
Thanked: 969 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Toronto
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#417
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Originally Posted by Frappacino
Yes, but you've missed the...
>> What possible benefit is there to you the consumer? The same things can be achieved with open standards without trapping your cash!
This is one of those "men are from venus and women are from mars" moments.
Originally Posted by Frappacino
Agreed, but you...
For the upteemth time - consumers dont give a SH1T what about open vs closed. They CANT be in FAVOR of "closed", because they dont know the difference. All else being equal, they will not buy the product with the "CLOSED" sticker rather then the "OPEN" sticker (and vice versa).
Originally Posted by Frappacino
Uh-huh, and in fact I agree with you that the majority of...
All they care about is this - they pay X $$$ to get Y if they like Y.
They will support companies that give them stuff they want for $$$, REGARDLESS of whether it comes from a CLOSED or OPEN philosophy.
Originally Posted by Frappacino
Hold on there a minute Don Quixote, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to...
Mainstream consumers will NOT actively fight for "Open" as they have enough **** to deal with in their everyday lives without getting into some abstract geeky religious war.
Getting mindshare in this day and age is hard enough - trying to get mindshare with an anti-sexy concept like FOSS is like tilting at windmills. I have better things to do with my life.
Originally Posted by Frappacino
...and breathe
You want to push OPEN ? Start a company that releases products that embody a standard - if you can get these products to really SELL, others will start to follow (accessories, apps whatever) and as the controller of that standard, you can then OPEN it or whatever.
All else is empty hot air is whining about the lack of JUUUSSSTICE(tm) in this world.
Whether you realise it or not, your whole post is a naked & shameless straw man.
I never said consumers will fight for open standards. I have made enough posts in this forum and elsewhere on the interwebs where I argue that in fact they will not.
To re-iterate: what I am saying is that I prefer open over proprietary, and so - in my opinion - should anyone who:
- understands the concepts involved
- does not stand to benefit financially from closed/proprietary systems
For example: I prettymuch guarantee you're using at least some open standards right now. And open software. Like it or not, know it or not.
Or perhaps you prefer collecting hardware and software which together comprise one-off proprietary pieces of garbage which work with nothing else and become defunct within a year or two, prompting you to shell out more cash for a replacement which has all the same flaws but is a bit shinier...?
In the absence of any interesting news about the N9 these last few days, I'd say well-argued and reality-based attempts at rebuttal of my actual stated position are welcome. Good luck with that.
__________________
tinfoilhat.dll: Trojan horse detected
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Last edited by shallimus; 2011-07-19 at 04:18.
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2011-07-19
, 04:18
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#418
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Originally Posted by ericsson
Oh dear God, nooooooooo! Not ericsson's ignore list! Anything but THAT! I DID try to cite materials to point out more ACCURATE history to prove my point instead of trying to debate on his revisionist history... sooooo I suppose it's a badge of honor to be on THAT ignore list.
Another thing danramos, if you don't want to discuss the topic, then at least stop responding to my posts. You are a millimetre from ending up on my ignore list (if this site got it that is).
Edit: found the ignore list, and danramos is on it
Originally Posted by jo21
Speaking of revisionist... You apparently decided to filter out the parts where I mentioned that I also touched on the PC and Windows 95--but I guess that DID die eventually, right? Aren't you glad I went with Maemo? Say--why did YOU choose to hook up with a dying platform?
oh ATARI, no wonder why u so grumpy. you jump on dead platform alot.
i guess u now make apps for windows phones another burning platoform.
@gerick, board of directors is american blindfold one, the company success looks like more smart engineering from way on below them, rather their execution.
under their wing Elop sold macromedia to adobe, the guy have story of selling stuff.
...I mean, you DID say I seem to jump onto them... and here I am.. and here you are, too. HELLO! Oh the delicious irony of myopic debate. heheheh
Originally Posted by shallimus
Case in point in your favor... after a certain point, customers WILL eventually start demanding openness. i.e.: Here in Massachusetts, there's a big push (with lots of yard signs and an upcoming citizen vote) to MANDATE a right to repair law... http://massrighttorepair.com/ (based on the broader movement in the US at http://www.righttorepair.org).
I never said consumers will fight for open standards. I have made enough posts in this forum and elsewhere on the interwebs where I argue that in fact they will not.
To re-iterate: what I am saying is that I prefer open over proprietary, and so - in my opinion - should anyone who:
- understands the concepts involved
- does not stand to benefit financially from closed/proprietary systems
For example: admittedly, it's hardware not software, but I prettymuch guarantee you're using at least some hardware based on one well-known open standard right now. Or perhaps you prefer collecting one-off proprietary pieces of garbage which work with nothing else and become defunct within a year or two, prompting you to shell out more cash for a replacement which has all the same flaws but is a bit shinier...?
In the absence of any interesting news about the N9 these last few days, I'd say well-argued and reality-based attempts at rebuttal of my actual stated position are welcome. Good luck with that.
Just saying... customers DO want it, and there IS a breaking point. (This isn't the first time.. this is why automobile OBD2 protocols were standardized and made law in 1996, too).
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2011-07-19
, 04:21
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Posts: 568 |
Thanked: 969 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Toronto
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#419
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Originally Posted by danramos
Cool - had never heard of ODB2, but it's an interesting OT read. Thanks.
Just saying... customers DO want it, and there IS a breaking point. (This isn't the first time.. this is why automobile OBD2 protocols were standardized and made law in 1996, too).
My theory: informed consumers are more likely to make choices which end up benefitting them. A positive feedback loop.
__________________
tinfoilhat.dll: Trojan horse detected
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Last edited by shallimus; 2011-07-19 at 04:47.
| The Following User Says Thank You to shallimus For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-07-19
, 04:24
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Posts: 572 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
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#420
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Originally Posted by gerbick
kmart is sears? we had a SEARS here. closed due certain bad management, then license expired.
WHOA!! I did not even know... wow.
That... explains it all. Holy damn.
If Elop is a trojan, McKinsey is straight cancer.
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| Tags |
| balmer was here, e6 rox, elop rox, elop snopp, elop's fool, the elop flop |
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