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2011-09-23
, 14:05
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Posts: 2,448 |
Thanked: 9,523 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
@ Wigan, UK
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#6792
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Originally Posted by jalyst
There won't be any final info until it is too late. That's the problem. They can always tighten the security framework in a future update. There are plenty of examples of other corporations doing this. It's a question of trust. They don't trust me, so why should I trust them?
The way I've sen it evolve so far, we must reserve judgment in the absence of final info.
Originally Posted by jalyst
No, I'm not surprised at all.
Are you honestly surprised that something like this was inevitably implemented...
If maemo was to be truly competitive (aside from what happened in the interim) against the likes of iOS/Adroid et al?
__________________
'Men of high position are allowed, by a special act of grace, to accomodate their reasoning to the answer they need. Logic is only required in those of lesser rank.' - J K Galbraith
My website
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'Men of high position are allowed, by a special act of grace, to accomodate their reasoning to the answer they need. Logic is only required in those of lesser rank.' - J K Galbraith
My website
GitHub
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2011-09-23
, 14:09
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Posts: 196 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Africa
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#6794
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Originally Posted by marxian
What if you didn't pay for it?
The possibility of Aegis being defeated is irrelevant to me, because I don't wish to give financial support to any company that is not prepared to trust me with the device that they are asking me to pay several hundred pounds for.
What if your company paid for it, and they want to ensure that the phone is being used within the policies etc. that apply to devices with access to business systems for compliance and liability reasons.
Should they be *forced* to buy iPhone or BlackBerry (effectively locking meego out of business environments => reducing target market for apps etc.)
Aegis is apparently flexible enough to allow various useful policies to be implemented (although not everything required for a useful business+leisure-use device can be done with aegis alone).
The questions remain about open mode, and whether owners will be able to enter open mode (noting of course that the user with physical access to the device is not necessarily the owner).
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2011-09-23
, 14:13
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Posts: 2,448 |
Thanked: 9,523 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
@ Wigan, UK
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#6795
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Originally Posted by giorgosmit
I also come from a non-technical background. My qualifications are in economics and mathematics. I have no qualifications in computing or similar. This is not a technical issue, it's simply MS abusing their dominant position in the desktop OS market.
[Friends reference, I apologize in advance] -"Hey Joey, how did you get porn [windows] on that computer?"
-"I don't know man, I just opened the computer and it's there!"
Marxian, in my experience this is also how people think about windows. They don't think of them. They just open their PCs and there they are. So, they don't know they are jailed. They don't know, or care, about open OSes. Most of them don't know what an OS actually is. For 85-90% of the regular Joes, windows=pc. So I don't agree in your jail parable, because most of them don't know that they are in a jail.
Personally, I come from a completely non-technical background, and have an Ubuntu netbook and a Windows laptop, which I use about equally. I am writing my graduate thesis mostly on the netbook, and sync it on dropbox. Frankly, I prefer Ubuntu for non-demanding tasks. However, whenever I try to convince someone with an ancient PC and a 5 year old, imploding XP installation to try linux instead of downloading a cracked, non-supported W7 copy, I always get the same answer: I wanna actually do stuff, not just goof around. I have heard that even from nominally technical people (friends who study computer engineering) that CBFed to use a non-commercial, and in their minds unreliable, OS. We, the linux users, in their minds are just arsing around in our mothers' basements doing incomprehensible things in front of a dark screen with bright green code.
tl;dr: I would argue that their own narrative is:
-Serious windows users in power suits are busy making money.
-Fat, neckbearded, bespectacled and be-acned kiddies are goofin' around with their weird, open source toys while screaming "hey mister! hey mister! come out and play with us! be FREE!" at the honest wage-earners.
-Damn kids and your games, somebody's GETTING WORK DONE HERE!
I'm not criticising users. I'm criticising MS for preventing users from making choices. I can't stand Windows, yet I have more Windows installations than I do Linux. Why? Because either I have no choice, or the FOSS workaround is so inconvenient that it seriously reduces productivity when I need to just get something done.
I'm sure the corporate users of Windows know what an OS is. After all, they spend a sh1t-ton of money on the licences. We need them to tell MS to eff off, but it's not going to happen unless MS start using open standards.
__________________
'Men of high position are allowed, by a special act of grace, to accomodate their reasoning to the answer they need. Logic is only required in those of lesser rank.' - J K Galbraith
My website
GitHub
'Men of high position are allowed, by a special act of grace, to accomodate their reasoning to the answer they need. Logic is only required in those of lesser rank.' - J K Galbraith
My website
GitHub
Last edited by marxian; 2011-09-23 at 14:30. Reason: Info on background
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2011-09-23
, 14:27
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Posts: 568 |
Thanked: 969 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Toronto
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#6796
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Originally Posted by buchanmilne
All good valid points. However, most of us on here who acquire one will be paying for the N9 ourselves.
What if you didn't pay for it?
What if your company paid for it, and they want to ensure that the phone is being used within the policies etc. that apply to devices with access to business systems for compliance and liability reasons.
...
I agree with Marxian's stance in theory:
Originally Posted by marxian
...but not in practice, partly because I have faith that the N9 will end up being properly hackable, but mostly because I suspect that the N9 is the best fit for me in terms of an all day/every day phone. Yep, better than the N900 (which I still love, so please don't flame me). Of course I can't judge that until I have it in my hands (or sleep with it for 24 hours (wtf?!) or however else you're suppose to judge a phone these days). I took a leap of faith with the N900 too, and that worked out very nicely.There won't be any final info until it is too late. That's the problem. They can always tighten the security framework in a future update. There are plenty of examples of other corporations doing this. It's a question of trust. They don't trust me, so why should I trust them?
Finally: if Nokia are targeting corporate IT departments with the N9, they're not doing it very loudly. This gives me vague hope that Aegis won't be a showstopper for us.
__________________
tinfoilhat.dll: Trojan horse detected
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
Sailfish want list: calendar bugfixes, glanceable agenda, Swype or similar
Evolution continues (but we're still pre-Cambrian)
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2011-09-23
, 14:39
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Posts: 196 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Africa
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#6797
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Originally Posted by shallimus
In which case your device should not be sim-locked, and if all the info we have on the design is correct, that should allow you to flash and boot your own kernel, and (the intention seemed to be that the rest of user-space should be ok).
All good valid points. However, most of us on here who acquire one will be paying for the N9 ourselves.
Whether you would be able to get unrestricted access without flashing a kernel is another question.
Finally: if Nokia are targeting corporate IT departments with the N9, they're not doing it very loudly. This gives me vague hope that Aegis won't be a showstopper for us.
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2011-09-23
, 14:39
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Posts: 218 |
Thanked: 128 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Abu Dhabi , UAE
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#6798
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Originally Posted by jalyst
I have read it in this site(first),it is also available in english:http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZA..._Mideast_debut
So you have proof that it's in shops there right now, right?
Otherwsie you wouldn't be wasting our time making superfluous claims, right.
Originally Posted by pedroesteban
Makes sense. Since if it was anything else(Electronics), it would be available in the U.S and western europe first(Or at least we can say these countries do have high chance of accessing new gadgets first.)
It's funny how people won't accept the fact that the n9 was released on time...
Thanks for the heads up, govprog.
Last edited by govprog; 2011-09-23 at 14:54.
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2011-09-23
, 14:44
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Posts: 738 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ London
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#6799
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hey, did anything relevant happened since page 600? I you could write me a small summary of the important news I would be immensely grateful!
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2011-09-23
, 14:48
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Posts: 673 |
Thanked: 856 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
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#6800
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Originally Posted by buchanmilne
N9 is not targeting governments and corporations.
What if you didn't pay for it?
What if your company paid for it, and they want to ensure that the phone is being used within the policies etc. that apply to devices with access to business systems for compliance and liability reasons.
They are targeting people obsessed with having shiny new iPhone that can be paraded in front of family, friends, co-workers...
Originally Posted by buchanmilne
Which entities will be able to define the polices:
Aegis is apparently flexible enough to allow various useful policies to be implemented (although not everything required for a useful business+leisure-use device can be done with aegis alone).
- Nokia
- Service Provider
- Company
- Government
- End user
Originally Posted by buchanmilne
An update to boot-loader in future may close that as well. Some of the developers are reluctant to upgrade to beta 2.
The questions remain about open mode, and whether owners will be able to enter open mode (noting of course that the user with physical access to the device is not necessarily the owner).
As for N9 it is still unknown if open mode will be possible at all. Until someone from Nokia steps in and says it clearly and loudly, or someone flashes the custom firmware with production devices.
Originally Posted by shallimus
The IT departments need secure storage for certificates and corresponding private keys. AEGIS combined with NFC (for external contact-less smart cards), might be a very attractive solution for the IT. It would allow them to enable secure mobile services such as S/MIME, secure voice communication, client based TLS authentication, VPN, filesystem encryption...
Finally: if Nokia are targeting corporate IT departments with the N9, they're not doing it very loudly. This gives me vague hope that Aegis won't be a showstopper for us.
Instead Nokia considers NFC as mean to perform some trivial things like device pairing.
At the moment it looks like blackberries and androids are the only able to provide such features.
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Last edited by momcilo; 2011-09-23 at 14:53.
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Otherwsie you wouldn't be wasting our time making superfluous claims, right.
Last edited by jalyst; 2011-09-23 at 14:06.