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Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#251
Originally Posted by zero.vishnu View Post
Lumia means prostitute in Spanish slang. Its a subtle hint at what Nokia has become. How much more evidence do you guys need?
Evidence is all around spilling, just matter of interpretation remains. You can cherry pick data that follows your pre-determined idea (for or against Nokia doesn't matter as evident in few threads)
Worrying is the jump in logic which you also promote, lumia means prostitute therefore Nokia did that with MS. This argument is lacking at best and namecalling (or changin e->f in Nokia's CEO surname) while might gather you some support here changes nothing. Should I link again to the 'analysts' opinions iPhone will be a flop from 2007? How about you bet 100$ on Nokia fail if you feel so strongly sure. Ramblings of tomi ahonen are just the same, got nothing invested gonna cry: Buy houses in 2008. Nokia has money to keep it alive for a couple years at least, if mega-ad-push with apollo doesn't happen, gameover most likely. Name-calling while appealing doesn't change a thing
 
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Posts: 237 | Thanked: 502 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Mittelfranken, Germany
#252
Originally Posted by Faustino View Post
Everything related to Maemo was pretty much spot on, whether we like to admit it or not, Apple made a great product that only has to evolve every year or so.

Nokia are chasing their tail at the moment.. they still continue to bring out and develop new phones that although mostly have excellent build quality, they lack something. They need to concentrate on just a few products and do it right.

<snip>

It's the small details like that which means it will always come second to their competitors.
Ever since I started using mobile phones I had only Nokia devices from which I got some Nokia "experience". It's not only the so-called Elop effect. Nokia started way earlier to fail.

1. time to market
And ever since I learned of their bad marketing. They always announced a new phone so far in advance that probably not only me didn't buy a chosen device. Instead you waited for the announced to be delivered. Others would have forgotten by the time a phone actually entered the market. Or you would wait for the announcement of the *i version as the original one had some features missing and *i version usually were announced within a year (so did I with the 9300 and the 9300i).
They even did this now in their new alliance. How much time passed between announcing the alliance and announcing the first WP, and then between that and this first device actually entering markets? They tried to be faster this time which was one of the reasons for the quality issues unusual for Nokia (the other being the movement of production to Asia). They even copied a design (N9) to be faster to the market and still were slow.

And back then there was Apple entering that market, announcing a phone and delivering it soon after. This is one of the facts, that made it successful. If Nokia would have done it like Apple, they would have produced that Lumia phones and then announced their alliance with that phone in their hands. Thinking about it, copying the N9 design could have made the camouflage while working on a WP a lot easier.
But now they did it old Nokia style only this time with lots of impact. Having a Lumia in hand while announcing the alliance might have been convincing. Not having one made people think and shudder - even the more making more stupid announcements prior to releasing a WP to markets.

2. abandon visionary ideas before readiness of the markets
Another thing is this. Nokia phones (and maybe others) did have a lot of features way before the smartphone era started. Some got discontinued like the whole S80 line with fax, MS-Office document editing out-of-the-box, pdf-reader, a decent calender with full scheduling support ... Some got reinvented by others under a new name and carriers now charge extra for them. My old 6210 already got what is called tethering today, and I had only to pay gsm traffic, no differentiation between smartphone and notebook traffic. And I was able to use Java programs on my 6310i, I had several programs (like JIMM, FTP, ZIP or games) on my 9300i. Someone had to call them Apps to make this stylish and look like its never been there before.
I have seen the Communicator line end with the 9300i, with E90 and E7 being only a slow tickle after that. And I guess I will see the Linux tablet line end as well with N900 being the last and N9 being an afterglow. Funny thing that at the end of the Communicators the market for smartphone started to bloom, at the end of the Internet Tablets the market for tablets does the same.
So Nokia has always been discontinuing good ideas only to see others reinventing them. And they have had a good hand to end them just at the beginning of their uprise. And they have never pushed their innovative ideas much - I have never heard of a "See we have had a smartphone for a long time before smartphone era. It didn't have a touchscreen thou, but a great hwkb, office functionality and 800x480 screen resolution."

3. too much phones
They did it before, they are doing it again with their Lumia series. They flood the market with too many different phones. Not many wanted to program for S80 because it was a small market (but they didn't make that market bigger), not many wanted to program for S60 because there were too many different phone for which the programs had to be customized (thats the real failure of S60 so far).
 
Posts: 840 | Thanked: 823 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#253
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
Evidence is all around spilling, just matter of interpretation remains. You can cherry pick data that follows your pre-determined idea (for or against Nokia doesn't matter as evident in few threads)
Worrying is the jump in logic which you also promote, lumia means prostitute therefore Nokia did that with MS. This argument is lacking at best and namecalling (or changin e->f in Nokia's CEO surname) while might gather you some support here changes nothing. Should I link again to the 'analysts' opinions iPhone will be a flop from 2007? How about you bet 100$ on Nokia fail if you feel so strongly sure. Ramblings of tomi ahonen are just the same, got nothing invested gonna cry: Buy houses in 2008. Nokia has money to keep it alive for a couple years at least, if mega-ad-push with apollo doesn't happen, gameover most likely. Name-calling while appealing doesn't change a thing
I can't find a shred of evidence that is for Nokia, only against, that can be cherry pick, really I cant. The only thing I see is consistent bad news in messaging and promised green pastures in storytelling. A lot of people agree and have already made that bet otherwise Nokia wouldn't be trading with near junk status. The only positive I see is that Nokias PR has kicked into overdrive with “Messaging and Storytelling” and that it is at least aware of that strategy.
 
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#254
Most likely won't happen, but one thing I need to put here. Everyone is a comfy-chair revolutionist, will shout his ideas for the good of people while not moving his *** from the comfy. How about you throw a molotov? Elop did. Burned himself in the process (as all comfy-chair revolutionistst would, it is easy only from your pov), but he did try to save the brand. Going forward with what was generating losses as most advertise here as best solution would NOT save Nokia. Out of the comfort of your own comfy(or not) chair everyone here is shouting: die mofo. But in fact you are the problem. You killed nokia/maemo... by lacking in numbers. Intelligence of user does not translate into monetary gain. Had you more social/sheepish 1m facebook friends that woiuld buy those devices, WP would never smell Nokia. Fact is 50k of users cannot keep a corp alive, no matter how vocal they are. And Nokia blew millions of users away with beta symbian devices

Last edited by szopin; 2012-04-22 at 01:33.
 
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Posts: 2,427 | Thanked: 2,986 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#255
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
Most likely won't happen, but one thing I need to put here. Everyone is a comfy-chair revolutionist, will shout his ideas for the good of people while not moving his *** from the comfy. How about you throw a molotov? Elop did. Burned himself in the process (as all comfy-chair revolutionistst would, it is easy only from your pov), but he did try to save the brand. Going forward with what was generating losses as most advertise here as best solution would NOT save Nokia. Out of the comfort of your own comfy(or not) chair everyone here is shouting: die mofo. But in fact you are the problem. You killed nokia/maemo... by lacking in numbers. Intelligence of user does not translate into monetary gain. Had you more social/sheepish 1m facebook friends that woiuld buy those devices, WP would never smell Nokia. Fact is 50k of users cannot keep a corp alive, no matter how vocal they are. And Nokia blew millions of users away with beta symbian devices
This is usually the point in the conversation where someone asks:

"Are you on drugs?"
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N9: Go white or go home
 
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#256
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
This is usually the point in the conversation where someone asks:

"Are you on drugs?"
No. Bit drunk I admit though.
 
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#257
But please daperl, say that sticking to Symbian would save Nokia (lets all forget its messy state that was end of Nokia, no for that to happen: BAM, our imagination is better than reality) Add to that image board of investors who do not like their stock declining, no Symbian division general could convince them the **** they ,ushed to prod will turn into awesome product. Here comes Elop... rest is known
 
Posts: 273 | Thanked: 463 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Athens
#258
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
But please daperl, say that sticking to Symbian would save Nokia (lets all forget its messy state that was end of Nokia, no for that to happen: BAM, our imagination is better than reality) Add to that image board of investors who do not like their stock declining, no Symbian division general could convince them the **** they ,ushed to prod will turn into awesome product. Here comes Elop... rest is known
Let see if I understand. You're saying that because Nokia wasn't doing so great with symbian (someone could argue that after the launch of the N8 things started going better) they should go ahead and bet everything on one of the most unsuccessful products in the history of software.
 
Posts: 100 | Thanked: 93 times | Joined on Apr 2012
#259
Originally Posted by Zoxir View Post
Let see if I understand. You're saying that because Nokia wasn't doing so great with symbian (someone could argue that after the launch of the N8 things started going better) they should go ahead and bet everything on one of the most unsuccessful products in the history of software.
No, no, no. He's saying that because Nokia wasn't doing so great with Symbian that they should *announce* to the world that they were going to kill Symbian and MeeGo (so that everyone would stop buying) and move with unilateral exclusivity to one of the most unsuccessful products in the history of software in six months. Pure brilliance.
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Palm Pilot->Kyocera 6035->Kyocera 7035->Treo 650->HTC Tytn->Centro->Nokia E75->iPhone 3GS->Nokia E72->Veer->iPhone 4S->Pre3 + Nokia N9 + SGS3
 
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#260
Yes and no. They bet on not spending resources on R&D in soft (what is Nokia still known for? Awesome snake or rather sturdy handsets?) and using MS for that. Outsourcing coding division as much as hurtful for maemo does make sense in corporate view.
 
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