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2012-05-02
, 09:45
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Posts: 1,583 |
Thanked: 1,203 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
@ Everywhere
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#32
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im sorry for my noob question, but will someday n9 got stuff like n900 did, like cssu and kernelpower things? Sorry for my bad english too
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2012-05-02
, 11:19
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#33
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Originally Posted by qgil
You should know better than to think you are going to get consistent answers from a thread on tmo.
And this is the point I was trying to reflect before: some members of this community are saying that Nokia plans are needed in order to plan maemo.org, while others are saying that maemo.org should plan the future without depending on Nokia plans.
But seriously, there is a community representative body (council) for Nokia to go to discuss such things with. Notwithstanding your skills as a community organizer, I think there is confusion with you wearing two hats and I suggest that if you are personally supportive of a maemo community evolution it is confusing because it is unclear whether Nokia is supportive of it.
If one changes "Nokia plans are needed..." to "knowing Nokia plans would be HELPFUL" in the above quote, then it makes sense. You started out talking about transparency, but a month later, we still haven't seen much of Nokia's intentions.
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2012-05-02
, 11:34
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 732 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Finland
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#34
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
I'm not fully up to speed with the status of qt-components on fremantle so I need to do some reading and experimentation with it. IIRC there's a package that solves the import issue. In any case this discussion belongs into another thread.
If, and only if, a developer wants to target multiple devices. However, let's assume there was another Linux + Qt device available and the problems of Qt Components portability (i.e. arbitrarily stupid differences in import statements and APIs) were resolved.
I'd think most won't start targetting multiple devices but having sources in the same build machinery makes it easier for someone else to do the work for getting package x to some other target.
like this: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/...=home%3Atimoph
(didn't try if it works on actual hw)
Naturally not everything will work for all targets.
Originally Posted by Jaffa
I fully agree on scratching one's own itch. That's where I focus my efforts as well
Agreed. Speaking personally, that willingness to adapt and learn new stuff is directly correlated with my desire to scratch my own itches.
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2012-05-02
, 11:47
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Posts: 1,397 |
Thanked: 2,126 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#35
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Let's try at least to start with some small steps, instead of spending too much time talking or (worse) discussing.
Community OBS is a step in that direction that should be encouraged as much as possible. By enabling COBS to support Diablo/Fremantle/Harmattan and Mer/Nemo/Plasma Active, we will be facilitating cross platform development and sharing efforts and materials.
Then another point that many people would like to see is a rearrangement of the forums to let more people participate here. That might be moved to a separate thread in order to clarify what should be done. For example:
- In section OS / Platform add Mer / Nemo / Plasma Active section and move relevant threads to there.
- Archive section OS2006 / Maemo 2 / Mistral - Scirocco - Gregale
- Add a section for Nitdroid. Coordinate with Nitdroid guys to move the stuff from Nitdroid forums here if they agree.
- In section Devices merge subsections for Nokia N810/N800/N700 and create a new section for Vivaldi.
- The old section might be less visible.
The Downloads section would also need a a lot of work. Again,sharing efforts with Harmattan and Mer will be desirable.
And finally, to avoid suspicions, change the name of the site to something like OpenMobile or whatever, but keep Maemo.org pointing here.
Community OBS is a step in that direction that should be encouraged as much as possible. By enabling COBS to support Diablo/Fremantle/Harmattan and Mer/Nemo/Plasma Active, we will be facilitating cross platform development and sharing efforts and materials.
Then another point that many people would like to see is a rearrangement of the forums to let more people participate here. That might be moved to a separate thread in order to clarify what should be done. For example:
- In section OS / Platform add Mer / Nemo / Plasma Active section and move relevant threads to there.
- Archive section OS2006 / Maemo 2 / Mistral - Scirocco - Gregale
- Add a section for Nitdroid. Coordinate with Nitdroid guys to move the stuff from Nitdroid forums here if they agree.
- In section Devices merge subsections for Nokia N810/N800/N700 and create a new section for Vivaldi.
- The old section might be less visible.
The Downloads section would also need a a lot of work. Again,sharing efforts with Harmattan and Mer will be desirable.
And finally, to avoid suspicions, change the name of the site to something like OpenMobile or whatever, but keep Maemo.org pointing here.
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2012-05-02
, 13:19
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Posts: 456 |
Thanked: 1,580 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#36
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Originally Posted by ivgalvez
I hear you.
Let's try at least to start with some small steps, instead of spending too much time talking or (worse) discussing.
Also thanks for trying to pull the thread back on-topic. I guess pragmatism is what we actually need.
Originally Posted by ivgalvez
The first three points sound really like great ideas. This way all the efforts could share a unified platform.
Community OBS is a step in that direction that should be encouraged as much as possible. By enabling COBS to support Diablo/Fremantle/Harmattan and Mer/Nemo/Plasma Active, we will be facilitating cross platform development and sharing efforts and materials.
Then another point that many people would like to see is a rearrangement of the forums to let more people participate here. That might be moved to a separate thread in order to clarify what should be done. For example:
- In section OS / Platform add Mer / Nemo / Plasma Active section and move relevant threads to there.
- Archive section OS2006 / Maemo 2 / Mistral - Scirocco - Gregale
- Add a section for Nitdroid. Coordinate with Nitdroid guys to move the stuff from Nitdroid forums here if they agree.
- In section Devices merge subsections for Nokia N810/N800/N700 and create a new section for Vivaldi.
- The old section might be less visible.
The Downloads section would also need a a lot of work. Again,sharing efforts with Harmattan and Mer will be desirable.
And finally, to avoid suspicions, change the name of the site to something like OpenMobile or whatever, but keep Maemo.org pointing here.
Personally, I am not quite sure about the fourth one, renaming the whole thing. But yeah, agreed, "maemo" would not fit pretty much anymore in such a bigger scope.
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2012-05-02
, 15:03
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Posts: 1,397 |
Thanked: 2,126 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#37
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I'm actually an N900 user but, from a pragmatic point of view, I think the best chance to survive is to join others.
In other iterations of Maemo (N770, N800, N810..) there were new devices to keep this forum alive. But now, the Meego movement has left a lot of Harmattan users out of this place. I think we should try to share efforts.
In other iterations of Maemo (N770, N800, N810..) there were new devices to keep this forum alive. But now, the Meego movement has left a lot of Harmattan users out of this place. I think we should try to share efforts.
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2012-05-02
, 15:14
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#38
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Originally Posted by SD69
This is why in a following post I added: "Or maybe defining formally this scope is actually not needed and this community can evolve through ad hoc steps?"
You should know better than to think you are going to get consistent answers from a thread on tmo.
But seriously, there is a community representative body (council) for Nokia to go to discuss such things with.
Notwithstanding your skills as a community organizer, I think there is confusion with you wearing two hats and I suggest that if you are personally supportive of a maemo community evolution it is confusing because it is unclear whether Nokia is supportive of it.
Then I do more than the strict assigned role, because I care and because I feel a member of this community. Since some community members seem to have a problem with this while others seem to be happy about it, what I'll do is wait for the newly elected council and seek advice from them. Personally I don't even have a strong agenda. I can keep myself more than busy with Qt Project alone, where I also care and feel a community member but (like in most if not all OSS projects) nobody has problems with contributors regardless of their employers.
If one changes "Nokia plans are needed..." to "knowing Nokia plans would be HELPFUL" in the above quote, then it makes sense. You started out talking about transparency, but a month later, we still haven't seen much of Nokia's intentions.
I'm being as transparent as probably anybody could in this role. No Nokia speaker can go further than what Nokia has officially announced. I understand you want more announcements but you must understand that, coincidentally
, there is a bunch of Nokia investors, competitors, analysts and media seeking that information as well. I guess nobody expects me to come up with the answers (even if I would have them, which is not always the case) here with Quote & Reply in some thread. No company in the league Nokia plays does that.Anyway SD69, what is your opinion about How will maemo.org introduce itself in 6 months?
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2012-05-02
, 15:52
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Posts: 1,455 |
Thanked: 3,309 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Rochester, NY
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#39
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Originally Posted by Arie
This we definitely agree on.
Any hostility in any direction is wrong.
Originally Posted by Arie
I think we're using a different definition of "accepting". You're talking about a social dynamic, I'm talking about a technological one. I don't see an iPhone target being setup on a community OBS, nor do I see much in the way of shared apps (with the exception of maybe Angry Birds...) I don't see iPhone users flocking here to learn how to use scratchbox or how to configure an overclock settings file. By default, we have a limited scope. Trying to be all things to all people will lead to being nothing to anyone.
Some new users of the N9 are former Iphone users, I'm sure some users here still carry an Iphone. ... We need to be willing to be accepting of any mindset that comes here.
Originally Posted by Arie
I've heard the same said in this very forum about Android, WebOS, MeeGo, Harmattan, iOS, chroot-Debain, SHR, and at least a half dozen hardware platforms. Most of those don't even have a forum group here. Fanboys will be fanboys. I think the real measure here is that outside of the handful of people drinking their flavour of OS kool-aid, by and large the sentiment is one of acceptance.
Numerous times throughout my time on tmo have I see N900 is better, or N900 can do this or Fremantle is the only true system.
The real problem often comes from when a group (or fanboy) goes over the top and promotes their own personal choice over everything else with malicious intent. There then tends to be a back-lash, which can last for months to years, depending on how heinous the acts committed are, and how long those hurt hold the grudge. Harmattan got some of that early on because it was seen as being part of MeeGo, and thus was guilty by association. As you noted, most of those fanboys are gone now, and relations have cleared up accordingly.
Originally Posted by Arie
Agreed. And I think, with all honesty, that this Council will be tasked with at least herding the cats in one general direction, vs the random scattering that's happening now. Not any easy task, but one that most of us standing for election know is on the very likely TO DO list.
As long as we keep a welcome mat available, I see no argument, or discouragement at all and we can move forward with an idea or direction for the community if the council chooses that to be something they want to pursue.
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2012-05-02
, 16:17
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#40
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Originally Posted by qgil
Quim, I would have pointed out the many threads containing the community's debates on the future of maemo during the previous year when you were not the Nokia representative, with which I and several other council canditdates are quite familiar. Some of the same stuff is being rehashed.
This is why in a following post I added: "Or maybe defining formally this scope is actually not needed and this community can evolve through ad hoc steps?"
Er... seriously I believe the discussion about the future of maemo.org should happen here and could be initiated by anybody, instead of being restricted to Council - Nokia meetings. I actually don't even see what is the big word of Nokia on this - beyond its role as sponsor of the infrastructure maintenance costs.
Originally Posted by qgil
I think it causes confusion despite the best of intentions. Maemo community is a bit different than Qt community. One main difference, I hope you will trust me on this, is that there is a lot of angst and disaffection in the community about Nokia's future support of maemo-related software. That's not present in Qt One similiarity is we are always fighting the maemo equals Nokia thing like the mistake that Qt equals Nokia. I do think it might work better if you let new council handle these issues to persuade more people to buy in in to the maemo community. Any Nokia representative is hindered wrt some of the potential community.
Then I do more than the strict assigned role, because I care and because I feel a member of this community. Since some community members seem to have a problem with this while others seem to be happy about it, what I'll do is wait for the newly elected council and seek advice from them. Personally I don't even have a strong agenda. I can keep myself more than busy with Qt Project alone, where I also care and feel a community member but (like in most if not all OSS projects) nobody has problems with contributors regardless of their employers.
Intentions about what?
Originally Posted by qgil
I understand that you can't be transparent. That;s why you should be careful about saying you will increase transparency.
I'm being as transparent as probably anybody could in this role. No Nokia speaker can go further than what Nokia has officially announced. I understand you want more announcements but you must understand that, coincidentally
Originally Posted by qgil
My opinions abound on tmo. I am happy to hear you say that there can be an evolution of maemo.org to a broader scope. I share that aspiration. There is also my candidate's declaration. Happy to discuss it here - please note my availability is erratic.
Anyway SD69, what is your opinion about How will maemo.org introduce itself in 6 months?
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If that device used hardfp & debian packaging we'd have binary compatibility between Harmattan apps and this hypothetical device's apps. That's a win-win scenario as those with either device can develop for both.
There's no RPM version of Attitude for Mer-running devices, despite it being the first COBS app. It was fiddly enough trying to work out the best practices for using OBS without also targetting a different packaging format for a platform I'm not using.
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