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Texrat is offline Texrat
2012-07-12 , 04:38
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#91
I'm 100% in support of openness. Transparency. Accountability.

But IMO the current council is at a point where having one or more private discussions may be necessary... and much better than this ongoing airing of dirty laundry.

EDIT: sorry if this was ambiguous or seemingly self-contradictory. See post below for clarification.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2012-07-12 at 16:09.
 

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2012-07-12 , 06:48
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#92
Originally Posted by misterc View Post
so, your metaphor, revisited...
  • remove the (dead) weight before jumping into the water?
    (de-elect one councilor)
  • Go! Go! Go!
    -where are we going? do we need... that? {finger pointing accusingly @ dead weight at one leg...}
    (same?)
  • water is cold. can we take the plane?
    (elect another council; use the campaign time to weight the options & gather more facts)
I do not follow the situation and do not know the roots of it but clearly there is a ongoing war against Estel. I do not know if this is fair or not but maybe the Councile could work things out in their own small team, and maybe instead of shouting to make an revolution lets move to evolution and solve things instead of starting/continuing wars?
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lma is offline lma
2012-07-12 , 11:26
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#93
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I'm 100% in support of openness. Transparency. Accountability.

But IMO the current council is at a point where having one or more private discussions may be necessary... and much better than this ongoing airing of dirty laundry.
That's an... unconventional definition of 100% then.
 

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2012-07-12 , 15:55
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#94
Originally Posted by lma View Post
That's an... unconventional definition of 100% then.
point missed then.

EDIT: sorry, not meaning to simply be facetious.

I am applying that 100% to community matters. I don't see council members arguing interpersonal issues as a community matter. It's distracting and counterproductive.

If personality conflicts arise, and that's normal, I don't see it as a violation of 100% open governance if the parties involved have a private talk on the subject of the personality conflicts in order to better resolve them. Doing so in front of a gallery interferes with productive process.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2012-07-12 at 15:59.
 

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2012-07-12 , 16:11
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#95
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I don't see council members arguing interpersonal issues as a community matter. It's distracting and counterproductive.
I don't see much of that in public, at least not without reading between the lines. Disagreements on community matters, like in this thread, are fine, and normal, and should be public IMHO.
 

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2012-07-12 , 16:15
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#96
Originally Posted by lma View Post
I don't see much of that in public, at least not without reading between the lines. Disagreements on community matters, like in this thread, are fine, and normal, and should be public IMHO.
No one has to strain to see it between any lines. I'm seeing too much of it.

Maybe your tolerance threshold for pointless, damaging *****ing and sniping is higher than mine. I don't want a politically correct council, but I don't want public discussion polluted by dirty laundry, either.

Grown ups find a respectable middle ground.

I've done this stupid egotistical axle-wrapping, too, here and elsewhere. Totally guilty. But after the humiliating revelation that I've let personal issues get in the way of serving the community, I have found that a private discussion with my fellow combatant(s) solely over the personality issues serves us and the community better. Without a gladiator gallery bolstering the egos and helping to polarize the discussion, it's easier to find root cause of dissension/disagreement and identify common ground. Then return to the community better equipped to get things done.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2012-07-12 at 16:21.
 

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2012-07-12 , 17:19
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#97
i don't agree with "in private"
one of the Council member clearly shows a lack of civility, part of which is Internet etiquette (he most likely wouldn't have the aplomb to tell those things to people's faces...) and part being that he is an immature ruffian.

that (some of?) the other members of the Council don't like this behaviour and as the person doesn't seem able to grow up, the person as well is a sideline.
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Last edited by misterc; 2012-07-12 at 17:23. Reason: typo
 
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2012-07-12 , 17:23
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#98
Originally Posted by misterc View Post
i don't agree with "in private"
one of the Council member clearly shows a lack of civility, part of which is Internet etiquette (he most likely wouldn't have the aplomb to tell those things to people's faces...) and part being that he is an immature ruffian.

that (some of?) the other members of the Council don't like this behaviour and as the person doesn't not seem able to grow up, the person as well is a sideline.
You might be amazed what a table-talk, with or without alcohol, can accomplish between people.
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2012-07-12 , 17:24
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#99
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
You might be amazed what a table-talk, with or without alcohol, can accomplish between people.
and where do you suggest we set up... table?
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2012-07-12 , 17:34
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#100
Originally Posted by misterc View Post
and where do you suggest we set up... table?
Really, I have to explain modern conversation methods to you?

Maybe you and I need to have a private talk so I can learn why you at some point decided that constantly giving me **** was a fun and useful thing to do.
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