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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2013-05-04 , 12:57
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#2771
They are changing CEO because its easier to ignore what the said earlier. It's a known trick similar to adding too much garlic in the burger when the meat is rotten, jsut to hide it.

I'm prepping for delays yet again!
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mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2013-05-04 , 13:08
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#2772
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Once again, I remind you about how AWESOME the free media attention worked out for Blackberry, for example. heh (Answer: Not very well--especially when their new CEO said some dumb things RIGHT after taking over.) Changing CEO's only works as well as the new CEO works.

If there are any brains left in the European media, they should give small businesses the opportunity to appear in the media without it would trigger the worst "anti-propaganda" against them just because they change CEO. After all, new company that Europe needs. Not just a bunch of Google / Android propaganda in IT media. Whether Google / Samsung pay them or not.

Incidentally, I do not think we can compare large companies with small start-up company when it comes to CEO changes.

But if you do a "comparison" so one wonders how the hell Stephen Elop can remain in the Nokia Board of procedure to be I think, is much more remarkable than that Jolla CEO changed twice ... Jolla has from the outset indicated that they will replace CEO during the "start-up" phase
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jalyst is offline jalyst
2013-05-04 , 14:28
Moderator | Posts: 5,320 | Thanked: 4,464 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#2773
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
They are changing CEO because its easier to ignore what the said earlier. It's a known trick similar to adding too much garlic in the burger when the meat is rotten, jsut to hide it.

I'm prepping for delays yet again!
I'm sorry, but if you're going to make absolute claims like that, then the burden of (solid) proof is on you, how does changing CEO's in any way make it easier for them to hide something?
In the larger corporate word* changing CEO's (relatively) frequently is mostly seen as a negative in the eyes of analysts/pundits/media, so why would they use it as a mechanism to hide problems?
If it's done purely as some kind of stunt to hide something, rather then what they've clearly stated it's for, then you need to provide a more solid explanation...

*Which is what you've been basing most of your claims on, even though Jolla doesn't exactly fall into that category

Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
... Jolla has from the outset indicated that they will replace CEO during the "start-up" phase
They've explained several times now (not that Dave was concentrating) that their approach was going to be somewhat unorthodox compared to much larger & more established co's.
And one of the main reasons for that, was that they planned to move people around more regularly....
This in fact isn't unprecedented for start-up companies, they've even gone into detail about this tack (among others) in interviews, & their inspiration/rationale for it.
Whether or not it's the best way to go overall I have no idea, & I doubt too many people that frequent this thread do either...
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-05-04 at 15:09. Reason: typo
 
Dave999's Avatar
Dave999 is offline Dave999
2013-05-04 , 14:47
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#2774
It's not really hiding, it more like nokia did. simlply forget about and do something else. I see it all the time. Not Cool.

CEO1: Meego is our OS for High end smartphones
change CEO
CEO2: Everything that CEO1 sais is gone. CEO 2 going with windows
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gerbick
2013-05-04 , 18:43
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#2775
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
If there are any brains left in the European media, they should give small businesses the opportunity to appear in the media without it would trigger the worst "anti-propaganda" against them just because they change CEO. After all, new company that Europe needs. Not just a bunch of Google / Android propaganda in IT media. Whether Google / Samsung pay them or not.
Nobody is owed anything in the media circuit. They're (media) there to spread opinion and bias for the last decade. Your media in EU is as opinionated as the Gizmodo's and Engadget's are in the US.

Face it. The only way to catch a break in the global media is to actually produce something with as coherent of a message as your public image (marketing and CEO statements) are. So this new CEO, he'll be judged alongside the company on what they deliver and how the company performs.

Media doesn't care about European needs/wants on the economical side. They're out to basically out-tabloid every single tabloid we grew up laughing at in grocery store aisles (US reference here, so whatever food market, food cave or vegetable valhalla exists in Eurotopia, so be it).

Incidentally, I do not think we can compare large companies with small start-up company when it comes to CEO changes.
Disagree. It's still a business that's seen only as strong as the head of the company is regarded in their industry. CEO says smart things, people will value that company. CEO says stupid things, that product better perform well to offset that CEO. CEO says really stupid things and their product doesn't deliver, we're counting down (like Dave999) to their demise.

That's the nature of things right now unfortunately.

But if you do a "comparison" so one wonders how the hell Stephen Elop can remain in the Nokia Board...
Because Nokia placed themselves in a very bad position only to now be positioned under Microsoft (literally, figuratively, perhaps even sexually) and despite all of the "it was selling better than X in 2XXX, well, **** was weak enough for somebody to come in and say that it was going to end, point to something that that very same Board of Directors allows Elop to stay and Windows Phone as a platform to languish, garner no real support and flounder much like Windows 8 is currently doing in that market.

Simply stated, Nokia ****ed themselves. The rest, you can argue until you turn blue or switch languages. But it happened.

...is much more remarkable than that Jolla CEO changed twice ... Jolla has from the outset indicated that they will replace CEO during the "start-up" phase
Read above. All companies are valued by their CEO. Jolla knows this; thus the comparisons to bigger companies will continue. They're showing that they are at least learning from the big companies. Let's see if they deliver like one.
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2013-05-05 , 13:52
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#2776
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
they've even gone into detail about this tack
I read that sentence and it hit me right in the face as a strange, strange expression where 'tack' doesn't fit in as a noun, verb, or anything else. I suspect you meant "tact?"

Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
But if you do a "comparison" so one wonders how the hell Stephen Elop can remain in the Nokia Board of procedure to be I think, is much more remarkable than that Jolla CEO changed twice ... Jolla has from the outset indicated that they will replace CEO during the "start-up" phase
Dismissing the criticism about rapidly changing CEO's is best done by pointing out case history, not with excuses and dismissives about out how unfair it is to do so because "they're just a start-up" or "you're criticizing for the sake of criticizing." It doesn't convince anybody to make those points.

Whether you intended it or not, you do bring up a fair point--Nokia itself was definitely not served well by holding onto a miserable choice for a new CEO for far too long. Going back to my examples, holding onto Balmer through the worst of Microsoft's years hasn't worked out well, nor did HP holding onto Carly Fiorina, nor did RIM during its time of holding on to two simultaneous CEO's.
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jalyst is offline jalyst
2013-05-05 , 14:10
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#2777
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
I read that sentence and it hit me right in the face as a strange, strange expression where 'tack' doesn't fit in as a noun, verb, or anything else. I suspect you meant "tact?"
Nope, tack is sometimes used to express "taking a direction", it has it's roots in sailing terminology.
It was also a play on words on my part, given the the story of the naming of Jolla/Sailfish, & the fact that participants in that movement often refer to themselves as "Sailors".

Dismissing the criticism about rapidly changing CEO's is best done by pointing out case history, not with excuses and dismissives about out how unfair it is to do so because "they're just a start-up" or "you're criticizing for the sake of criticizing." It doesn't convince anybody to make those points.
So you're making the assertion that it has to automatically be a bad thing based on; other co's, which are fully established, are (comparatively) massive, who's paths/stories are completely different, & for which it's yet to YTBFD* whether they're going down directly thanks to changing one or more CEO's too quickly? No offence, but I think the whole argument is quite strange, co's go down for a whole range of factors, yes CEO's are usually the single-biggest factor, but often it's far more complex than changing 1 or more CEO's too quickly. Even looking at CEO's & their actions only isn't always the full story, especially for larger organisations, but it's definitely more significant than rate of change.

And you're framing the argument as though pointing out case history is the only way towards some kind of "truth"...
Read the articles I referenced (no time to find them ATM sorry), they've explained the basis of their approach**, it's based on a text-book analysis of how one supposedly runs a agile start-up, whether or not it's the "best" approach I've no idea, I'm no expert in the area. I've no time to dig up "case histories" of start-up's using such an approach, but I'm sure if one were to expend some time it'd be possible, & I'm sure there's several very different arguments "for" & against" such an approach.

I don't see how it's a good or bad thing, there's simply not not enough info on the internal machinations, plus nothing has happened on the actual market in order to determine where the mistakes are being made or (more typically) "were made", that'll come soon, & there'll be MANY. I'm all for criticising tangible things, see many of my earlier posts. *DISCLAIMER* I'm probably always going to be a backer, even if the final 1st product "isn't enough", mainly because I want to see at least one more "Android" doing well on the worldwide market, & so far I only see Sailfish as being closest to that.*** But that doesn't mean I'll hold back on attacking real problems where I see them, doing that will only hurt what I'd like to see happen.

*for most (if not all) of the examples you cited
**aside from explaining the basis for their relatively regular movement of people, they've also explained each specific change in detail
***for reasons I've mostly outlined in older posts, the other contenders sit further back in my interest queue
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-05-06 at 03:08. Reason: typo
 
danramos's Avatar
danramos is offline danramos
2013-05-05 , 17:24
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#2778
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Nope, tack is sometimes used to express "taking a direction", it has it's roots in sailing terminology.
It was also a play on words on my part, given the the story of the naming of Jolla/Sailfish, & the fact that participants in that movement often refer to themselves as "Sailors".
I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
And you're framing the argument as though pointing out case history is the only way towards some kind of "truth"...
You're joking, I hope. There's no "truth" to be gleaned from opinions and speculation, even if you're basing them on what's worked or not worked in the past. Your own argument against the idea of criticizing is itself is skewered by the very points you made. :P All there is from this is the suggestion of what MIGHT or MIGHT NOT work. Just relax and have a snack or something.. this is just a forum.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
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marxian is offline marxian
2013-05-05 , 17:41
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#2779
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Just relax and have a snack or something..
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jalyst is offline jalyst
2013-05-06 , 03:16
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#2780
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
There's no "truth" to be gleaned from opinions and speculation, even if you're basing them on what's worked or not worked in the past.
I guess I don't get the point of arguing based purely on speculation, fair enough on known points.

Your own argument against the idea of criticizing is itself is skewered by the very points you made. :P All there is from this is the suggestion of what MIGHT or MIGHT NOT work.
I'm not getting this point, what exactly are you trying to say?

Just relax and have a snack or something.. this is just a forum.
Oh I'm relaxed, not a fan of popcorn though, except for sometimes when I go to the Cinemas
 
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