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| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to norayr For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-08-26
, 21:43
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#92
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Originally Posted by norayr
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83442
several times I expressed the idea here that we need to free maemo
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89416
And check 'closed components replacement with open ones' thread in CSSU.
This will be a closed blob bob
| The Following User Says Thank You to szopin For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-08-26
, 21:56
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Posts: 257 |
Thanked: 2,053 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#93
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Originally Posted by norayr
Yeah, Free Maemo is something we would like to see someday. Personally, I think Neo900 can boost development of free replacements. When we'll port Fremantle to Neo900, we'll see exactly what closed parts are there. Some of them will probably have to be replaced (pulseaudio?), some of them will need some adapting interfaces. That may serve as a ground work for proper replacements later.
several times I expressed the idea here that we need to free maemo. I mean fremantle. to rewrite/replace non-free parts of it thus make it live without being dependent on the old body.
n900 case is cool for me. but it's a body which will die one day. software is like soul, it can use different bodies. so may be someone gets a strong brand new body like nexus, and he'd like to use good old maemo on it? we need to get a free maemo first. the body is not that important as the free soul. let's get free maemo running on n900 and/or gta04 and/or n9(50) and/or google nexus.
Running on one type of board is like having one hardware adaptation. Let's have many hardware adaptations. Why one?
Yes, free hardware is better. But some may prefer just to use free software on non-free hardware. It's anyway better.
Though we don't have free maemo now. At least free maemo is an improvement.
At least that's how I see it. It'd be pity to be stuck with closed blobs on such nice free device forever
__________________
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
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2013-08-26
, 22:20
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#94
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95 votes in 24h, with 10 of them >=700EUR. Not bad at all. I know this won't sustain, but I may dream, no? In 20 days we have our 200 preorders :-D
(even 37 >= 500EUR. I don't see this happen yet, but things may change)
/j
PS: Hurry! I'm pondering to get a one-way ticket to Mars. ;-)
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-08-26 at 22:30.
(even 37 >= 500EUR. I don't see this happen yet, but things may change)
/j
PS: Hurry! I'm pondering to get a one-way ticket to Mars. ;-)
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-08-26 at 22:30.
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2013-08-26
, 23:41
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Posts: 93 |
Thanked: 172 times |
Joined on Jun 2011
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#95
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n900 case is perfect.
I don't know if someone here knows hp old calcs:
a 30 year old case -> hp41 with an old pcb and 2 years ago a new pcb was created just to fit in the old body.
look:
http://systemyde.com/hp41/index.html
pictures:
http://math.pc.vh.free.fr/divers/hp/perspectives.htm
Neo900
I don't know if someone here knows hp old calcs:
a 30 year old case -> hp41 with an old pcb and 2 years ago a new pcb was created just to fit in the old body.
look:
http://systemyde.com/hp41/index.html
pictures:
http://math.pc.vh.free.fr/divers/hp/perspectives.htm
Neo900
| The Following User Says Thank You to 48GX For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-08-26
, 23:52
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#96
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Originally Posted by 48GX
I honestly hope they kept the *unique* key click tactile characteristics. I never before and never after pressed a key like on HP41 or HP25. If HP had spend only 50k$ on development of those, I'd say "well done! worth a lot more". Mere ???-pr0n
I don't know if someone here knows hp old calcs:
a 30 year old case -> hp41 with an old pcb and 2 years ago a new pcb was created just to fit in the old body.
look:
http://systemyde.com/hp41/index.html
pictures:
http://math.pc.vh.free.fr/divers/hp/perspectives.htm
Neo900
lame substitute: http://maemo.org/packages/view/free42/
/me sobs a bit about the HP-41CV which incinerated some 7 years ago, in a burning flat
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-08-27 at 00:07.
| The Following User Says Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-08-27
, 06:06
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Posts: 694 |
Thanked: 619 times |
Joined on Nov 2011
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#97
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Estel, did you finish the prototype of that aluminium body of yours? If you did, great, we COULD incorporate it. If you haven't, well, you could work with these guys?
__________________
Still learning on geeky knowledge
N9 *stolen* → N900 *died* → N900 *on hiatus* → OnePlus X
Still learning on geeky knowledge
N9 *stolen* → N900 *died* → N900 *on hiatus* → OnePlus X
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2013-08-27
, 06:09
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Posts: 2,102 |
Thanked: 1,937 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
@ Berlin, Germany
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#98
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
may be, think about 'spam'-mailing all registered maemo.org members to get the casual user aware of the chance to start research on the subject.
95 votes in 24h, with 10 of them >=700EUR. Not bad at all. I know this won't sustain, but I may dream, no? In 20 days we have our 200 preorders :-D
(even 37 >= 500EUR. I don't see this happen yet, but things may change)
/j
PS: Hurry! I'm pondering to get a one-way ticket to Mars. ;-)
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2013-08-27
, 07:21
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Posts: 1,789 |
Thanked: 1,699 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
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#99
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Originally Posted by dos1
Thanks.
The problem is that it's not enough to just have "low cost" chipset. What's more important is how we're going to buy it. Neo900 will be produced in very low quantities in comparison with phones from big companies, so prices of such "modern" pieces are going to skyrocket.
We can use those chips you mentioned. What we'll sacrifice by that is full compatibility with Fremantle and... price. If you're ok with paying above 1000 EUR for such smartphone and you can get ~500 more buyers to do that, then it can be produced - why not?
We have to keep in mind that this is community based project without any support from big gamers. We don't have Nokia's cash nor as many paid engineers as they have (or had :P). There's no Google behind us wanting to spread their platform. Price is going to be higher that in competition - that's for sure. But of course we can lower the difference with higher demand.
I still think that freedom GTA04, and now Neo900, can provide is worth higher price. It costs a bit, but it's an unique feature you won't get anywhere else.
Although this sounds like a neat idea in theory, in practice I think its not that good (from what I know so far).
The reason being is that the software isn't completed yet, and there's bound to be annoying bugs... this takes dedicated developers working fulltime like in larger firms.
The next thing, is that this board is pretty big.
For a device like N900 its suitable, but it doesn't offer us a physical form factor like those slim Motorola Droid's.
And lastly, its very expensive.
While a short-production run is excusable... having a look at the prices listed for batches of 10k and 100k its still very expensive. It will drive the cost of the device easily into a thousand.
To illustrate my point, an order of ~40,000 units would bring the cost down of each unit to roughly ~$470 each.
Canonical wanted an order of ~40,000 pre-orders for the Edge phone. That device was not only offering the software to be done, within its total price of $700 it wasn't just giving the board but the body, screen and gismos (and some of the highest quality).
I mean if that project failed, only making $12 - $13M... I doubt this one would take off.
No offence, its just the reality of the situation.
Linux on mobile is pretty much dead. The only glimmers of hope I can see rests on:
- Vivaldi Tablet (Plasma Active on Craplet)
- Jolla phone
- GNexus/Nexus 4/Nexus 7/New Nexus 7/Nexus 10/Chromebook etc etc with a port of Ubuntu, Mer, PlasmActive, openSUSE ARM
__________________
I'm flattered
Originally Posted by mscion
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mscion For This Useful Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
I'm flattered
| The Following User Says Thank You to Kangal For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-08-27
, 07:48
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Posts: 499 |
Thanked: 836 times |
Joined on Jun 2012
@ Finland
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#100
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Originally Posted by Kangal
Thanks.
Although this sounds like a neat idea in theory, in practice I think its not that good (from what I know so far).
The reason being is that the software isn't completed yet, and there's bound to be annoying bugs... this takes dedicated developers working fulltime like in larger firms.
The next thing, is that this board is pretty big.
For a device like N900 its suitable, but it doesn't offer us a physical form factor like those slim Motorola Droid's.
And lastly, its very expensive.
While a short-production run is excusable... having a look at the prices listed for batches of 10k and 100k its still very expensive. It will drive the cost of the device easily into a thousand.
To illustrate my point, an order of ~40,000 units would bring the cost down of each unit to roughly ~$470 each.
Canonical wanted an order of ~40,000 pre-orders for the Edge phone. That device was not only offering the software to be done, within its total price of $700 it wasn't just giving the board but the body, screen and gismos (and some of the highest quality).
I mean if that project failed, only making $12 - $13M... I doubt this one would take off.
No offence, its just the reality of the situation.
Linux on mobile is pretty much dead. The only glimmers of hope I can see rests on:
- Vivaldi Tablet (Plasma Active on Craplet)
- Jolla phone
- GNexus/Nexus 4/Nexus 7/New Nexus 7/Nexus 10/Chromebook etc etc with a port of Ubuntu, Mer, PlasmActive, openSUSE ARM
Didn't quite catch the point in this message. You did realize people here are not talking about commercial product per say, but about super miniscule, small circles "fanboy" phone? We are talking about patch of a few hundreds, definetly not thousands, produced phones at best.
Bringing up comparisons about Ubuntu Edge (and others U mention) scale of production doesn't really hit the point from what I have understood.
Also, ability to cut cost comes exactly from using existing and compliant HW/SW "base" of N900, so again bringing up point about software/high-end CPU/case-form factor/Physical form factor doesn't again hit to the point on my opinion here. Soooo, did U read the thread carefully, is it me here who is totally lost on the main idea here. Or what are we talking about here?
Last edited by Boxeri; 2013-08-27 at 07:49. Reason: Typo
n900 case is cool for me. but it's a body which will die one day. software is like soul, it can use different bodies. so may be someone gets a strong brand new body like nexus, and he'd like to use good old maemo on it? we need to get a free maemo first. the body is not that important as the free soul. let's get free maemo running on n900 and/or gta04 and/or n9(50) and/or google nexus.
Running on one type of board is like having one hardware adaptation. Let's have many hardware adaptations. Why one?
Yes, free hardware is better. But some may prefer just to use free software on non-free hardware. It's anyway better.
Though we don't have free maemo now. At least free maemo is an improvement.