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2013-12-03
, 14:14
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Posts: 15 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Jun 2013
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#82
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To draw a parallel and for no other reason. I would like to point how xda developers has been running successfully for a very long time. With a plethora of devices, developers and support for devices long EOLed by their parent company. TMO has been like XDA for me since I switched to N9 earlier this year and any reason why I would buy a sailfish/meego/maemo/mer device in future is because of this forum and the kind of people and support you get here. I feel this could be as big as XDA if Jolla mange to pull off what they are looking at. I hope they do. I don't want to go back to android now.
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2013-12-03
, 14:33
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Posts: 234 |
Thanked: 281 times |
Joined on Nov 2010
@ Helsinki
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#83
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One issue that is being in favour of establishing a new community is the people of tmo. I think people here are generally very tech savvy and even educated on Jolla, other Linux-based operating systems and (mobile) technology.
My Finnish point of view is that many Finns are willing to buy Jolla even if they don't know specifically what they are buying. Looking at the Active Topics bar terms used are very advanced. I personally am quite familiar with terms like UI, OS and kernel, but many people might find them hard to adapt. I imagine that part might find it hard to participate on conversations. On a sidenote those people are possibly not getting the point that Sailfish is on beta stage.
Not saying my opinion is in favour to a fresh start, just my two cents on the topic. And of course it's not a "fault" of this community and yes there are very well written FAQs for people to direct to. I haven't been here that long and don't know how "regular" users related and approached the community when N900 was launched. At least in Finland it was if not popular but at least bought by many "normal" people like Jolla will be. Guy who I bought my first N900 told he didn't know how to operate the device and was surprised when I told him it was running Linux.
Edit: Please don't think I'm against tmo. I lurk here daily and consider this community awesome.
Last edited by shanttu; 2013-12-03 at 14:36.
My Finnish point of view is that many Finns are willing to buy Jolla even if they don't know specifically what they are buying. Looking at the Active Topics bar terms used are very advanced. I personally am quite familiar with terms like UI, OS and kernel, but many people might find them hard to adapt. I imagine that part might find it hard to participate on conversations. On a sidenote those people are possibly not getting the point that Sailfish is on beta stage.
Not saying my opinion is in favour to a fresh start, just my two cents on the topic. And of course it's not a "fault" of this community and yes there are very well written FAQs for people to direct to. I haven't been here that long and don't know how "regular" users related and approached the community when N900 was launched. At least in Finland it was if not popular but at least bought by many "normal" people like Jolla will be. Guy who I bought my first N900 told he didn't know how to operate the device and was surprised when I told him it was running Linux.
Edit: Please don't think I'm against tmo. I lurk here daily and consider this community awesome.
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Please avoid feeding the trolls.
Last edited by shanttu; 2013-12-03 at 14:36.
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2013-12-03
, 14:40
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Posts: 943 |
Thanked: 3,228 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ Zagreb
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#84
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Jolla wants to be commercially successful, so if Average Joe buys a phone they can't tell him to go look on TMO. Well, they can but......
To me, it's perfectly understandable that they want something on their own and why they need it. I just hope that they won't ignore this place and this community because for now and in near future the most customers/buyers are/will be from this place or are people that were somehow related to to maemo and now they get interested in product made by someone who once made something that they used and liked.
Also, most likely, the majoriti of native apps, constructive bug reports and ideas for improvements will come from experineced users here and not from average user.
So, Jolla can stick here, or whoever is interested in sailfish can go there but the scenario in which Jolla and this community goes separate way won't be good for anybody, it's a lose-lose situation.
To me, it's perfectly understandable that they want something on their own and why they need it. I just hope that they won't ignore this place and this community because for now and in near future the most customers/buyers are/will be from this place or are people that were somehow related to to maemo and now they get interested in product made by someone who once made something that they used and liked.
Also, most likely, the majoriti of native apps, constructive bug reports and ideas for improvements will come from experineced users here and not from average user.
So, Jolla can stick here, or whoever is interested in sailfish can go there but the scenario in which Jolla and this community goes separate way won't be good for anybody, it's a lose-lose situation.
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2013-12-03
, 16:03
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#85
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Originally Posted by kinggo
I thought they handle that userbase via twitter, email and facebook
Jolla wants to be commercially successful, so if Average Joe buys a phone they can't tell him to go look on TMO. Well, they can but......
To me, it's perfectly understandable that they want something on their own and why they need it. I just hope that they won't ignore this place and this community because for now and in near future the most customers/buyers are/will be from this place or are people that were somehow related to to maemo and now they get interested in product made by someone who once made something that they used and liked.
Also, most likely, the majoriti of native apps, constructive bug reports and ideas for improvements will come from experineced users here and not from average user.
So, Jolla can stick here, or whoever is interested in sailfish can go there but the scenario in which Jolla and this community goes separate way won't be good for anybody, it's a lose-lose situation.
No matter what Jolla plans for "normal users", we were starting from a perspective of (developer-)community-"building" - see post #1. As I elaborated, in my dictionary a community is not a customerbase (number of unlinked people without any common level of knowledge). I don't think it's a valid argument when we're now worrying about level of experise too advanced in here ;-) I'm absolutely sure Jolla should have a first level helpdesk - maybe even with a forum - just like Nokia did. Unrelated to this community of tech savvy people in here, which already are as many potential developers in one location as you possibly can gather/build by years of careful community care. And many of them might port their existing apps to sailfish, and I bet they will point back to this forum for their bugtracker, like they always do
/j
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-12-03 at 17:52.
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2013-12-03
, 19:38
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#86
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Even if you want to start build new community, you should at least to listen to those few people you have 
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2013-12-03
, 20:15
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Posts: 284 |
Thanked: 661 times |
Joined on Aug 2013
@ Finland
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#87
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Originally Posted by stezz
Expanding my analysis more (since I was yet to be corrected), it is yet to be answered (or maybe even tried) what are the actual benefits of close community involvement in product/service creation. ZogG implied it would (or could) be a huge asset. But how huge? I think no-one has tried it yet, in large scale at least. Maybe mostly because of the uncertainty surrounding the actual "level" of helpfulness... I think that's a huge stumbling block in "total" openess to community (in reasonable levels). By the way I think there's a huge potential in this community at least
I think this is a pretty close analysis of the situation Thoke, as much as you didn't know.
With that being said, I wish I could some day see such a company/community interaction in practice. It may only work in small-scale projects, but I hope one day some big one was done the same way... Just to prove the concept.
What I wrote above may be irrelevant to recent forum symbiosis discussion in this thread. I hope the semi-merge (or what it's called) comes to reality in some way or another, but I'm sure even if it doesn't happen most regulars here aren't going to disappear.
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2013-12-03
, 20:30
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#88
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Originally Posted by Thoke
Some tried. Mozilla and KDE for example. And not only their code is fully open, their development is open too. Which is remarkable. And they explicitly mention those as their core values:
...it is yet to be answered (or maybe even tried) what are the actual benefits of close community involvement in product/service creation. ..I think no-one has tried it yet, in large scale at least.
https://mozilla.org/about/manifesto/
Free and open source software promotes the development of the Internet as a public resource.
Transparent community-based processes promote participation, accountability, and trust.
Open Governance to ensure engagement in our leadership and decision processes;
Free Software to ensure the result of our work is available to all people;
Inclusivity to ensure that people of all origins are welcome to join us and participate;
https://sailfishos.org/about-license.html
Our goal with the Sailfish OS is to develop an open source operating system in co-operation with the community, thus ensuring the development of a best-of-breed operating system. We believe this will act as a refreshing sea-wind that will help push the industry forward.
A key tool for the achievement of this goal is ensuring that the operating system will be licensed under an open source licensing model that encourages and facilitates community participation. As we have built Sailfish on top of existing open source projects such as Mer, we also want to make sure that the community will benefit from the work we have done.
Last edited by shmerl; 2013-12-03 at 20:40.
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2013-12-03
, 21:01
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#89
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THANKS shmerl! THANKS!
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
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2013-12-04
, 04:31
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Posts: 1,974 |
Thanked: 1,834 times |
Joined on Mar 2013
@ india
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#90
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theres always 100+ people viewing the sailfish section most of the time i noticed
Use them (where possible) please Sailors, I believe you've already started down that path with XFade...