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ggabriel is offline ggabriel
2013-12-06 , 10:12
Posts: 728 | Thanked: 1,217 times | Joined on Oct 2011
#111
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
Whats wrong with jollausers forum?
Notrhing, you just don't get the same quality of people. I gave it a few days and came back here... more substantial conversation, more critical topics, and so on. Happy to read both if there was a bit more content. I'm not surprised though, they were/are going to give a present to whoever posted the most (and most "useful" as well, however you may measure that), so rubbish posts were expected.
 
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chemist is offline chemist
2013-12-06 , 12:46
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#112
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Personally, in my travels on the internetz I've been regularly referring people to TMO*, since I've seen lots more folks asking Jolla/Sailfish-related questions.

*I rarely see major tech sites doing that
Even forum.jollausers.com refers to TMO instead of collecting their own data...
(I thought I'd might get some new info there but turned out to find only links to tmo...)
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Last edited by chemist; 2013-12-06 at 12:54.
 

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ZogG is offline ZogG
2013-12-06 , 12:55
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#113
That's the difference between geeky based community (TMO) and fanboys community (all those jolla inspired forums/blogs)

First just want to hack, all you need is to give them ability for it,a nd they do it even whiout device already. Second is just bragging how phone and OS is cool, even before it was released or shown.

I don't understand how some people do not see logic.
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243kof is offline 243kof
2013-12-06 , 13:27
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#114
I'm neither a geek (not as much as many people here anyway) nor a Jolla fanboy. I'm just curious to try something new that, in my opinion, seems plain better / superior than the current status quo. I've only been lurking here for a couple of months and I think this community is great and tech-savvy, although I could live with a little less Jolla / N9 /N900 comparisons because I never used these phones so they are useless to me. However, I can understand it if Jolla wants to build its community around a new "official" site infrastructure for a lot of reasons. Probably there are pros and cons with this approach, but I don't consider it such a big mistake. Just because meego.com died (which I learnt about here) doesn't necessarily mean history will repeat itself - different circumstances...
Life will sort itself out once again - my 2 cents.

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shmerl is offline shmerl
2013-12-06 , 16:53
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#115
From another thread, but relevant here:

Originally Posted by w00t View Post
Hijacking this question to talk a bit about Jolla and open source.

I don't have metrics for everything, but here's what I do know.

The central focus of Jolla's open source efforts are in the Mer and Nemo environments, because those are where we get the basis for our distribution (Sailfish OS). These are open projects and not just run by any one individual or organisation, but we contribute quite a good slice. A large part of our work is based on and around open source software.

You can follow through the individual projects where much of this work happens:
https://github.com/mer-packages/
https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/
https://github.com/nemomobile/

Onto some metrics:

https://www.ohloh.net/p/nemomobile

(note the dip in 2012 when Nokia ceased their activities, and note how it's been steadily increasing since - again, not everyone in Nemo is working for Jolla - but there's quite a number of us)

Jolla also contributes to other projects, such as my own personal favorite - Qt:

http://www.macieira.org/~thiago/qt-s...r.absolute.png
w00t: Do you get the feeling that it's a preferred approach (segment out what to engage a community in, while keeping the rest behind the wall), or just a current status quo? Since this really sounds more relevant to the Nemo community, not to the Sailfish one. I once asked in the past, may be there were some plans to merge Nemo and Sailfish into one open system, but that's not the case from what I've heard, and they are intended to be separate. But what makes Sailfish - Sailifish and not Nemo is precisely what's closed (as of now). So in the context of the Sailfish community this looks somewhat strange. Does it mean that community should rather lean towards being Nemo community?
Last edited by shmerl; 2013-12-06 at 17:31.
 

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mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2013-12-06 , 18:05
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#116
Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
I'm not sure what does the above have to do with the openness of code and development? We weren't talking about open drivers yet. Vivaldi isn't using open drivers either. They are using the same closed Android blobs and libhybris. We were mostly talking about open code of the OS (above hardware adaptation) and open development. Open hardware adaptation is a separate topic.
Seems I have to be more clear:

Can you tell me how real companys can make money of fully opensource software? In Jollas case qwhy on earth would any compay "license SailfishOS" if it in the same time was fully opensource? I also had asked that question lately about digia's Qt? Not many is my guess.. Probadly thats why Boot2Qt is not open.

Because that is what it is about in the end. You need money to pay your bills.

That is big difference from hobbyprojects like Vivaldi. I am sure those who contibute to Vivaldi has some income somewhere else.

But that seems people not to understand here. Probadly because mom and dad pay your bills...
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Last edited by mikecomputing; 2013-12-06 at 18:11.
 

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shmerl is offline shmerl
2013-12-06 , 18:07
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#117
mikecomputing: Mozilla, Red Hat, Collabora, Joyent, etc. You probably know most of them anyway. As ggabriel pointed out, they don't make money from selling software. They usually make money from selling services. It's a common trend for open source companies. So, what does Jolla want to do? Make money on the OS, or make money on the services and hardware they provide?
Last edited by shmerl; 2013-12-06 at 18:13.
 

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ggabriel is offline ggabriel
2013-12-06 , 18:09
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#118
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
can you tell me how real companys can make money of fully opensource software?
It's very easy, do like Mozilla - they do a fully open source project and then they get millions from a big search company. Oh. Wait. They aren't making money _because_ of the software, doh. :-)

On a more serious note, you can become an expert in that open source package and charge for services, although the model plays in a market that gets very competitive very quickly, so I totally get that you have to be able to add value with your own stuff that you license.
 
mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2013-12-06 , 18:12
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#119
Originally Posted by ggabriel View Post
It's very easy, do like Mozilla - they do a fully open source project and then they get millions from a big search company. Oh. Wait. They aren't making money _because_ of the software, doh. :-)

On a more serious note, you can become an expert in that open source package and charge for services, although the model plays in a market that gets very competitive very quickly, so I totally get that you have to be able to add value with your own stuff that you license.
Yeah nice to be owned by Google NOT

People is so damn naive lately. I just wait for people come and say "hey I love google so much so I let them use my body when I die they are free use it for marketing they'r cool stuff in the future"
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Last edited by mikecomputing; 2013-12-06 at 18:18.
 
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w00t is offline w00t
2013-12-06 , 18:14
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#120
Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
w00t: Do you get the feeling that it's a preferred approach (segment out what to engage a community in, while keeping the rest behind the wall), or just a current status quo?
(these are my personal views, not everyone at Jolla will agree with me)

The very way open source works is through segmentation. Different projects with different ways of working & aims cooperating together at the fringes to make something bigger - be it a desktop or in our case a phone. I think that the model works pretty well.

Not perfectly, there are some aspects of things I dislike: like the traditional role of distributions being rather separate from the software they are distributing. I think our model (of the software being packaged & turned into a distribution by the people doing the majority of the top end software) makes a lot more sense. I suppose this shouldn't come as a surprise, given where I work.

So, to get back to answer: I think that segmentation makes sense. A core, middleware for a mobile device, and a UI/services on top.

Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
Since this really sounds more relevant to the Nemo community, not to the Sailfish one. I once asked in the past, may be there were some plans to merge Nemo and Sailfish into one open system, but that's not the case from what I've heard, and they are intended to be separate.
I don't think merging a UI and a lower end stack makes sense. That's something that harmed MeeGo quite a bit, and they were even working on trying multiple UX stacks. As a result of not having a clear seperation, you ended up with a massively unwieldy core as a result of everything being shoved into one location. Unclean architecture and increased maintenence & build burden.

Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
But what makes Sailfish - Sailifish and not Nemo is precisely what's closed (as of now). So in the context of the Sailfish community this looks somewhat strange. Does it mean that community should rather lean towards being Nemo community?
Depends where you want to work and what your goals are. Right now, if you want to work on mobile *UI*, your options are limited: Sailfish UI is not open, and Nemo's is. If you're happy contributing to anything underneath that last mile, then the field is a lot more open for collaboration and cross-pollination.
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