Sorry but I just see what I am shown.

Agree.

Yes that has been pretty clear so far.

By what I read so far I tend to disagree with this. Some people here seem to be afraid to change or grow (at least the one in this thread).

Then of course there are a lot of smart and cool guys (shmerl, chemist, jalyst, w00t, ... just noticed inthe couple of days I spent here) that stand out, sure and I am sure they will be the same wherever they are.

Sure I agree. Helpful people are helpful also when they go to other places.

to all who want Jolla to use TMO as primary community:
just remember what happened to the Wazapp-thread and you will change your minds ;-)

What happend?

hundreds of "stupid" (or better say non-tech) people flooding the thread with thousands of the same stupid questions over and over again.

Leinad: I guess that's because most with some knowledge completely avoid Whatsapp to begin with Sorry for off-topic.

It's not about that. At least for me. It's just that all the freaks and geeks are here and knoweldge, enthusiasm, experience and whatever elese comes from passion for platforms that found their home here should not be ignored no matter how many other sailfish communities/forums are there.
This is pretty much how I see it too.

There will always be outliers in any group of people. I believe that what I said represents the majority of maemoers. I might be wrong but I doubt it looking at the responses in this thread, and the sheer volume of Jolla related threads/posts lately.

That's you assuming that they will go to other places, which is IMO as wrong as the
is.

Sorry if I sound harsh. Don't mean to. We're just seeing things a bit differently, and I'd like to convey my point of view.

Personally, I think it's a nice start that we have the SailfishOS and Jolla sub-forums.
I also very much appreciate the way how, e.g., w00t or rainisto communicate in here.
I think that it is pretty difficult to speak in public as an employee of a company as everything one says may be interpreted as official company statement.
I also understand the current problem of Jolla simply lacking the manpower to, e.g., provide things like a public bugzilla.

I agree that the discussions in here may get harsh at times and that's also something that bothers me from time to time.
But I think, the best reaction on people escalating a discussion is to still stay calm and try to be objective and friendly.
It's natural that there are controversial discussions but one should still be respectful to each other.
Besides, there is nothing wrong if people agree to disagree. It's mostly how to treat one another.

Looking back at the time when meego.com started there had been much debate in here and people were entrenched in their positions.
I don't think that this is the case right now. I just mention it as we can learn from history to avoid the same problems (on both sides).

My view on Jolla and their engagement is very optimistic.
E.g., the OBS at build.merproject.org is just great.*
Plus, imho, they really invest a lot of effort to foster open development and infrastructure.
From my perception, they also follow a nice policy to contribute and push upstream.
Just because some parts in Sailfish are closed source right now doesn't make that contribution smaller.
I think that the environment building up on Mer, such as Nemomobile, Plasma Active, Sailfish, etc. really is a great step forward to having a truly open ecosystem for mobile devices where efforts can be tackled jointly and all can benefit from each other.
Also, thanks to so many parts being completely open, the chances of loosing what had been achieved so far are very small.

I think being inclusive right now is a good chance for all of us.
There may be hard times and there may be disagreement but I think that's nothing this community can't handle.
Finally, we will have to see how things develop once more Jolla phones reach the customers.

PS:
I think there are also nice projects already, like the hw-keyboard other half project or the N9 Sailfish port effort.
Imho, these projects nicely illustrate the opportunities.

PPS:
*Not to forget libhybris by Stskeeps, which is probably the key technology to enable the usage of Linux on a large range of Android devices.

The problem is when the outliers outnumber the others (and I can't say if that is the case here)


You are correct. Let me restate:

Nothing wrong with that you are the least harsh of many.

To be honest, I can't really understand the discussion here. Why is here always talked about different communities.
When I got it right, Jolla wants to have another platform on www.jollausers.com. What's wrong with that. I still don't see two communities but only two platforms for one community.

I think the future will show, where the the people want to discuss and where they want to stay. Maybe here, maybe there and maybe some here and some there, whats the problem. OK for the user it's in the end more comfortable to have only one platform, but at least I can live with looking on two platforms. Which I will probably have to do, because I have ordered a Jolla and made a "pre-booking" for the Neo900.

Of course I can understand both sides.
Jolla - who wants to have a platform, where their brand is in the name and in the url of the platform.
On the other hand the People which fear that tmo is abandoned by Jolla. But at least at the moment it doesn't look like that. There are a lot of people from Jolla which communicate over this channel and if they see that in future there will still be a lot of people of the community on this platform, why should they abandon tmo.

If it really happens, that the main part of the community decides to move to jollausers. Jolla will probably stop to feed this channel. But that's just logic. When this really should happen - what I doubt -then there are things to discuss. But at the moment I just see a further platform for one community and I think they both can coexist . Maybe one Platform for the geeks and one for the normal user.

So why don't wait and see how it evolves and than discuss about further steps.