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pichlo is offline pichlo
2015-09-17 , 16:14
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#451
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
this is why I don't really recognize my own device from descriptions of some posters here. It's all negative, completely, utterly negative concentrating on everything that can be turned to negative without even a hint to anything even remotely positive.
But the same can be said about you! There are posters who try to paint an objective picture but the moment they include anything that can be considered even a little bit negative, you immediately snatch that opportunity and focus only on that.

That's what makes this place quite tiresome at times and that's why I have lost most of my faith in communities.
Exactly!

you seem to be one of those expecting every single detail to be poured out for gossip and bemoaning clarification.
There. Fixed it for you. It is the lack of details that give rise to gossip and bemoaning, not their presence. Providing unambiguous details prevents gossip and bemoaning.

This post is a typical example. Completely lacking any detail and a textbook invitation to speculations and gossips and, eventually, bemoaning. It would have been better not to say anything at all but if you want to say something, say it properly. Provide the schedule or, if you do not have one, say you do not have one and why. Say exactly what obstacles are standing in the way. Not just, "we have some problems", but exactly what problems. It's just business 101. Managing expectations.

But this is waaaaay OT. Now back SFOS 2.0. I like it.
There. A positive comment. Feel free to ignore it and say that I am 100% negative.
 

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JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2015-09-17 , 16:51
Posts: 285 | Thanked: 1,900 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#452
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
But the same can be said about you! There are posters who try to paint an objective picture but the moment they include anything that can be considered even a little bit negative, you immediately snatch that opportunity and focus only on that.
Overtly negative and disproportionate is not same thing as objective. I do recognize that Sailfish is far from perfect and I do hope that next phone is already in the pipeline as I don't count this one to last for next two years. But to comment only on those negative things is not being objective, especially if the tone is more like pointing fingers instead of looking forward. Nothing is solved that way. Some things take time to implement, somethings have to be given lower priority, some things may be dropped altogether. It's normal in just about every single company or project with limited resources. Somehow it at times turns into "not even this is implemented yet so they just sit there doing nothing" as if that certain piece is THE defining factor of everything related to the OS.

There. Fixed it for you. It is the lack of details that give rise to gossip and bemoaning, not their presence. Providing unambiguous details prevents gossip and bemoaning.
We have already seen it before. Details only matter when there is resolution available, until that they always cause more gossip and bemoaning, especially if attitudes are already hyper-critical. That's why I prefer announcing things only when there is something relevant to announce. The Apple way seems to be better in this regard - they never give hints beforehand, only announcing things when they are ready. Jolla's model is different as it lets people to have a look how the product is baked. However, it's also somewhat dangerous approach as it places much faith in people to understand that it's not at all uncommon for things to go SNAFU until product is ready to deliver. You just don't hear it from companies like Apple or Samsung. However, I do blame them for setting over optimistic schedule for delivery like Nokia did before. I don't know if they do it to keep things moving forward or what, but it does harm their public image.

This post is a typical example. Completely lacking any detail and a textbook invitation to speculations and gossips and, eventually, bemoaning.
...and it's perfect example of what I mean. If something cannot be published at that moment, there is nothing else to disclose. So, in that case, which one you want: silence, or ambiguous statement that something is cooking?
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2015-09-17 , 17:00
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#453
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
Overtly negative and disproportionate is not same thing as objective.
We will just have to agree to disagree. You see it white. I see it grey. You shout, "you see it all black!"

Please try to undersatnd that not everyone who is not your friend is your enemy.
Quite the opposite, everyone who is not your enemy is your friend.

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
...and it's perfect example of what I mean. If something cannot be published at that moment, there is nothing else to disclose. So, in that case, which one you want: silence, or ambiguous statement that something is cooking?
I said exactly where I stand. Saying nothing is a lesser evil than an ambiguous statement. There is nothing worse than an ambiguous statement.
 

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JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2015-09-17 , 17:11
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#454
Then I guess we agree at least on the part where silence is golden until there is something relevant to disclose.
 

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javispedro is offline javispedro
2015-09-17 , 17:33
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#455
Originally Posted by smoku View Post
No. Not open sourcing.

Dumping tons of dirt cheap TouchPad tablets on the market (fire-sale style) helped WebOS. People were hacking it like crazy even before releasing WebOS free. :-)
I was monitoring webOS before and after the Touchpad firesale (I got one there), and I can say that the firesale did not help much.

An example is that the android-on-the-touchpad IRC channel was significantly more populated than the usual webOS channels.

Unsurprisingly, people who've paid $100 are less committed than people who paid +$300

In any case, open source webOS has certainly worked to keep it alive. can run it on my Jolla of all places , and in fact would probably be my first option of a truly free mobile OS.
 

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itdoesntmatt is offline itdoesntmatt
2015-09-17 , 18:00
Posts: 529 | Thanked: 988 times | Joined on Mar 2015
#456
ot: webos or luneos is actuslly as usable as sailfish?
 
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vistaus is offline vistaus
2015-09-17 , 19:14
Posts: 423 | Thanked: 478 times | Joined on Sep 2014 @ Netherlands
#457
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Ok, here is exactly my problem:



and



So, Qt is fully open, and receiving the many benefits of open source. Yay! But, I would also argue that if the Qt company were to die tomorrow, Qt dies with it. There's an enormous amount of inertia behind Qt right now, so it wouldn't die immediately, but I just don't see how the project works without the company standing behind it.



Yes! But doesn't this really apply to any project?

I do understand that there are many, many benefits to open-source code. But what I'm seeing is that fully open-source efforts produce Nemo-like projects, while commercial organizations that mix open and closed source produce Sailfish-like projects. Yes, we had the death of the N900 and Maemo, the death of the N9 and Meego, and in the fullness of time we'll probably have the death of Jolla and Sailfish. All commercial software projects are mortal. But in all that time, with the rise and fall and rise again of all these commercial platforms, it doesn't seem like any fully open platform has gained any sort of success...
When a company dies, the OS or UI doesn't have to die. Look at how LuneOS is progressing on re-building my beloved webOS (though I moved on to Jolla and now BB since Jolla launched their phone). I have a test version of LuneOS running on my HP Touchpad and they're doing a great job. Just like SOS, there are monthly updates. So no, an OS doesn't have to die when a company falls.
Last edited by vistaus; 2015-09-17 at 19:31.
 

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vistaus is offline vistaus
2015-09-17 , 19:16
Posts: 423 | Thanked: 478 times | Joined on Sep 2014 @ Netherlands
#458
Originally Posted by itdoesntmatt View Post
ot: webos or luneos is actuslly as usable as sailfish?
On the HP Touchpad and Nexus 4: yes, although making calls is still on the to-do list. But aside from that, it's perfectly useable as a basic OS (though there are also more advanced options).
 
jolla-pirate is offline jolla-pirate
2015-09-17 , 19:26
Posts: 18 | Thanked: 23 times | Joined on Dec 2013
#459
Well! This has really gotten offtopic!
Any thoughts about Sailfish 2.0 anyone?
 

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catbus is offline catbus
2015-09-17 , 20:23
Posts: 887 | Thanked: 2,444 times | Joined on Jun 2011
#460
Originally Posted by jolla-pirate View Post
Well! This has really gotten offtopic!
Any thoughts about Sailfish 2.0 anyone?
Thanks for this...

I think, many of TMO-members has abandoned Jolla/Sailfish because of delays and no info...

No, i have not any thoughts about S2.0 because i am waiting official upgrade... Just calm down everyone, please...
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