I'm actually with this statement as well.. I don't understand it either.
We are all humans, everyone has their own tastes and own thoughts about things.

As an example: I don't care about 'privacy' issues, because nowadays you can run, but nowhere to hide.
Android has become much much more mature than you guys think. It has all kinds of features already that other OS's still lacks.
There is no need to bash an OS, just because it's not your taste.
Don't get me wrong; I used Maemo 5 and 6 with much love, but that is history of now. People need to move on. We have Sailfish OS and Maemo-Leste, but both of them are still not mature enough for many people to be a replacement of a daily driver.

Some people like BMW i8's, while others love Tesla Model S's. And well, there are still people who loves Lada's. Tastes and colors cannot be argued, everyone loves their own things.

Some people just loves iOS because of the simplicity of it.
Some people loves Android because you have more freedom compared to iOS, yet still very accessible for their apps.
Some people loves other OS's, just because they only need the few things that the OS offers.


Maemo.org has a nice community and lets keep it that way.
<3

Edit:
At the end, this device is probably going to help us all who wants a hardware keyboard:
- Some will use Android
- Some will flash some other OS over it.

Liangchen, thank you for all the hard work <3
Many people waited a decade for this

This would be Great! Stream and chat etc... ACP, Zoom, S4B etc...

You're missing the point.
AFAIAC (and I'd wager I'm not the only one), the problem with Google (and by obvious extension, Android) is not about whether their products are mature, stable, nor that they have whatever features other OSes don't (or the other way around).
It's definitely not a matter of taste either...

The problem is more of philosophical and ethical nature.
Let's not forget Google makes its money with all the data they gather from... just about everywhere.
This absorption is built-in at the core of Android's structure (and every website and service Google has its tentacles in).
The philosophical conundrum is thus: are we OK with them gathering and exploiting so many data about us (some of them they do warn about, but there's more than just those) ?
Do we actually care (or even know) about it ?
If we don't, is it because we don't have the technological knowledge to do something about it, or because we only want to use the tools everybody is using, because it's easier no matter what the effect on our liberties is ?
If we do care, are we doing anything about it ?
Against it ?
Is it even possible, or do we just submit, because the battle is already lost, so we might as well give in ?

Of course all of this is about privacy.
Speaking of which...

It seems like you've yielded already.
Yet, just because it's definitely not easy (or even completely possible) to hide, doesn't mean we have to surrender and obediently bask in the joy of using every tool they throw at us.
Alternatives exist, but of course when it comes to social apps/programs, the problem is convincing other people to try something else.
For some other tools, you can block js, or even sites/domains/whatnot that are constantly being phoned to for the sole benefit of the companies.

To get Goldwin's law out of the way, if all people just chose not to fight anymore, most of us would be raising their right arm on a regular basis...
Obviously the fight is not the same, but the one we have now is quite the insidious one nonetheless.

You don't have to fight actively, every single day, all-day long, but even a modicum of concern is better than doing nothing while the world is definitely not going in the right direction for regular citizens.

I encourage each and everyone here (and beyond) to check The Hated One's channel on... Youtube (which is ironic in its own right, but I suppose that's how you reach the masses).
I'm not advocating that everything he says is gospel, but at least he cites his sources, which is always a good thing.

For anyone actually not caring about privacy, or just wondering what the fuss is all about, at least watch this video.



No argument there

Yet, to rerail the thread a bit more, my interest in the Pro1 is two-fold: HWKB (because I loved that with the N900), and a real open Linux-based OS (because I guess you've figured my position about Android by now ).
I'm glad SFOS is being worked on for the Pro1, and that Leste may happen as well, but as much as I want to support Chen for attempting this, I won't commit to buying it if it ultimately only works on Android (or some unfinished or not fully usable FOSS/OS).

My eyes opened to that about 15 years ago in a single act of revelation. It took all of about 30 seconds. Almost all of it to gather the background information and a split second to put two and two together.

It took place in the corridor of a company I was visiting for a job interview. I was sitting on a bench waiting to be called for the next stage of the interview when two guys in suits, presumably working for this company, were passing by and, ignoring me, discussed some business matters. One of them mention in passing, like it was a normal, everyday thing, that they bought a database of searches about their company from Google and then adjusted some wording on their website according to the results. For example, because "free" came up in the search queries 10x more often than "evaluation", so they changed "download our evaluation software" to "download our free software".

Two things hit me over the head at the time:

1. "Free" is not the same as "evaluation", so what they did was, IMO, cheating.
2. But even more crucially, Google makes money by selling what people are searching for, thus enabling this kind of cheating. What's more, what you are buying can be tailored to your wishes, as in this example when they bought a search database filtered by certain criteria. If this kind of filtering is possible, what other things Google gathers about you to do other kind of preprocessing?

Those two points flashed through my head in a split second and I had my lightbulb moment. Before that, I was just an ordinary sheep like everyone else. I treated Google like everyone else - like the Best Search Engine Ever™, not giving a second thought about what is really going on.

Yup...
It is a few issues with Android.
Privacy being one...and Googles data collection practices...(and sure one can run but not hide...that isn't the issue...the issue is every time one uses any service with data collection...your "digital doppelganger" gets more fleshed out...and you get more sucked in...more and more "suggestions" for news...shopping ...everything...starts focusing more and more specifically aimed at what your past choices are ...whether a curiousity search...random searching...or deliberate...it means that what ever you choose ends up becoming a macro ..a magnified glass of delivered advertising ...it isn't a true reflection of the choices available...if you have an odd craving for some chocolate ..and look up belgian chocolate ...after that algorithms start serving up chocolate and everything attributed to it.
Sorry ...guys...but that is plain and simple...evil. )
There are other options concerning data collection ...and google....for that matter.
Second it is about trust...and I just cannot trust an entity like google to have my best interests at their core belief.
Especially not ...considering the previously stated issue.
And lastly ...Android has some good stuff...yes.
They are tentacled into much of day to day living and business...there is a great integration there...
But their app store is a hot mess of 9/10 ths garbage.
Still that 1/10 th remaining .....is still a decent stack of apps.

In the end android ...for the time being...is convenient for daily...
Thats it.
Nothing more.

We may not be able to blame google directly for starting some things...
But their algorithmic methods of doing things is such that ...doing something as harmless as looking up some of those belgian chocolates a sudden inexplicable craving brought on...ends up with an endless digital line of google waiters rushing to you to serve up plate upon plate of not just belgian chocolate ..but every other possible type of chocolate ...and doesn't stop there...then it is all the articles that suddenly appear concerning how chocolate is good for your health ...bad for your health...then the various sketchy news articles start showing up...
Someone killed someone else over a box of chocolates...
Someone ate too much and died...
Or useless pap such as the most expensive chocolates...
And it can easily escalate to chocolate undies...or marital aids...
And much worse...
Conspiracy theories surrounding chocolate...

Google and their algorithms to give us more of what we were just curious about...to the point of choking us with it...
Is far past being predatory ...data collection.. driven.
Far past trying to keep us all consuming more of what we really didn't ask for...
Far past being evil ...even...I would hazard to say...

What they are doing is skewing...distorting ...narrowing ...the view of the world, news, data and the information available...
Toward a myopic distorted twisted mirror of the self viewing the medium.
The experience ...more and more is (and this is NOT an opinion..) is akin to an LSD trip gone bad.
Where looking at a beautiful butterfly landing on one's hand turns into focus of the hand, turns to focus of the creases of the hand, turns to the nearest blemish anywhere on the hand , and exploits it into an all consuming ...all spreading cancer.
That...
Is what googles algorithms are making us all focus on...
An unnatural and carcinogenic endless Mandelbrot ..

We can blame the fanning of the flames of alt right nutbars, outraged alt left protesters, flat earthers, anti vaxxers, extremists, terrorists...
you name the group ...
and google aids and abets...
It just feeds them more of what they want to see..

Easy answer for you, don't give in to temptations. Targeted ads are nothing new and have been around for decades. I could care less if Google knows what I'm interested in, because it's what I'm interested in. If I was going to buy something anyway, sometimes the ads are helpful in finding what I want. Typically I use ad block so I don't see the majority of ads. And even if I do see ads it doesn't affect what I buy. They could give me ads about Pepsi forever, that doesn't mean I'm going to buy soda or have cravings for it. Privacy is a touchy subject for many but I'm not afraid if Google knows what I would spend money on. And honestly if you're a savvy consumer the ads are useless 95% of the time. I can find better deals shopping around myself
But I digress we're way off topic here. Maybe we should start a new thread if we want to discuss OS pros and cons

If there would be one thread with the name "The Cage". If under some topic feelings are gettig heated or people start to fight about some off topic subject you could just post "To the cage" and the conversation could continue over there and thread would stay cleaner. Just a thought. The interesting hot subject could go on without need for anyone to stop it.

Bravo gtmaster303!

Thank you for proving just how well algorithmic prompting works.
Just as myopically you focused on the least and seemingly most harmless attribute I mentioned...shopping...and magnified it to the complete exclusion of all the other far more serious issues surrounding my post...
Issues, symptoms, problems and ills ...which I might add ...are simply poison to individuals and society collectively...
Writing is on the wall on this one..
Without such algorithmic engines.. Hate groups can't mobilize effectively, or terrorists...or anti-vaxxers spread falsehood and recruit more to the point where measles is back...
Measles is Back!

thank those who are just trying to give you more of what you want by way of "suggestions"...

But its all ok...
you are a savvy consumer.

...it isn't about me or anyone else falling in to temptation...
this is about far worse than that...
far more insidious.

I suggest perhaps a more solid argument ...than the one you've given ...
in response to what I actually posted.

Great idea Maemish
Why not post that suggestion in every thread ?
Better a header ...or perhaps at the front page of the site.

I think off topic is the place for off topic talk....isn't it?
hence the title "off topic"

And please...
there isn't a soul in this forum who stays "on topic"...everyone goes off or derails or meanders...here...
Including you Maemish.
So it is a little much out of you at the present.

Please ..
for the love of broccoli ...
Go throw stones inside your own glass house Maemish.