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qwerty12 |
2008-04-21
, 08:11
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Posts: 4,274 |
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Joined on Sep 2007
@ Looking at y'all and sighing
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#51
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Originally Posted by Bundyo
Hehe, my friend once got a Nokla "N95" of ebay :P
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2008-04-21
, 08:37
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#52
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Originally Posted by Modulok
I don't accept either statement.
Nonkia lost already enough useres to the eee and this year lots of atom cpu powered devices will appear.
2009-2010 intel announced the next atom cpu generation which should work better with mobile phones.
Anyone who bought the eee over an N8x0 didn't really want the latter platform's form factor. The differences are significant.
And the Atom remains unproven in cell phones. ARM's power management will likely render Atom a mostly moot point in that area.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2008-04-21
, 17:50
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@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#53
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Originally Posted by Ism
If I've learned one thing from my years of following technology related news, its that you never trust anyone who waves something around in front of a crowd at a technology show and says that the thing he's gotten working for the first time is "running well". If they do a demo, they're always careful to skirt around the unstable stuff, or even worse, they just run a mock-up of the technology. I suspect the latter with the whole tablet video-out thing that supposedly could run HD video from the tablet... riiiight.
According to this article
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html
... "Speaking at the Embedded Linux Conference in Mountain View this week, Christian showed an N800 tablet running the GIMP, an open source image processing package that he said worked well on the device. "
Does that mean that it is possible in the not so far away future to run GIMP even with OS2008. Although this is Ubuntu port it shouldn't be
too difficult to port it to Maemo? I always thought that GIMP would be too impractical: slow and memory hungry with clunky interface for my N800. How can it run "well"?
I mean, come on. GIMP on the tablet running well? I can only assume that means he got it to compile and run -- that's still a long shot from "running well." Heck, if it were that easy, we'd have VLC and Abiword and a bunch of other stuff on the tablet now.
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2008-04-21
, 17:58
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Posts: 7,109 |
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@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#54
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Originally Posted by Bundyo
I think the tablet already has the Helix binaries on-board, as part of the GStreamer framework. That's why we can play Real media in the first place. You might be able to compile the RealPlayer stuff using these binaries, if you can find them on the tablet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Community#Licenses
Second paragraph. Without these the Helix player won't be of much use.
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2008-04-21
, 18:00
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@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#55
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Originally Posted by pipeline
The "pool" directories are pretty skimpy right now -- there's almost no interesting software compiled in there yet. There's no GIMP, either.
Index of /
Name Last modified Size Description
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
frisky-armv5el/ 12-Apr-2008 07:44 -
frisky-armv6el-vfp/ 13-Apr-2008 14:57 -
frisky-source/ 09-Apr-2008 14:26 -
ubuntu/ 16-Apr-2008 10:09 -
By the way, why is this better or more interesting than the Debian armel ports underway?
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2008-04-21
, 23:08
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Posts: 22 |
Thanked: 30 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Northern California
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#56
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Originally Posted by qole
Gimp is there: http://repository.handhelds.org/fris...l/main/g/gimp/
The "pool" directories are pretty skimpy right now -- there's almost no interesting software compiled in there yet. There's no GIMP, either.
Originally Posted by qole
Lots of reasons: The Ubuntu Mobile Edition (uses Hildon, will be shipping on MIDs soon), Nokia's sponsorship of this port (so, presumably they'll make the proprietary hw bits work), Ubuntu's every-six-months release cycle, version 8.04 receiving security updates until 2011 ...
By the way, why is this better or more interesting than the Debian armel ports underway?
Of course, the Debian armel port is very interesting too, and some maemo stuff is being packaged in Debian now... but their armel distribution is of their next version, lenny, which may or may not be released before the end of this year (officially, no release date has been set). It is possible to use Debian armel on an NIT right now (in a chroot, or by booting it), but obviously companies aren't going to ship something that expects their users to track the testing or unstable versions of Debian (where there are frequent changes and sometimes things get broken).
I expect that both Ubuntu and Debian (lenny) will eventually become good OSes for use on the tablet. As I said before, I hope that Nokia's official OS fades away into a mere set of packages that are installed on top of Ubuntu proper. If it could be installed on other distros too, that would be even better.
But what I'd really like, besides access to the thousands of packages in these distros, is security updates from people who take it more seriously than Nokia does.
Nokia does not even bother with security updates.
Is this a bad thing? I dunno... Here's a random example from Debian's security page: DSA-1537-1 xpdf -- several vulnerabilities. This describes three different bugs which each allow "execution of arbitrary code" by PDF files, which means that every PDF you load can technically do *anything* to your system. What version of xpdf does Nokia ship? Inside of osso-pdf-viewer_1.4.41-0.tar.gz you'll find they're using version 3.0.0, released in January 2004. I guess Nokia just assumes nobody would ever load PDFs from untrusted sources on their tablets... or that security of always-on internet devices with cameras and microphones just isn't that important?
Last edited by finite; 2008-04-21 at 23:25.
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2008-04-22
, 16:38
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@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#57
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Originally Posted by finite
Ohhhh... for some reason I was looking in the frisky-armv6el pool. I guess that's for a different processor...
Gimp is there: http://repository.handhelds.org/fris...l/main/g/gimp/
Originally Posted by finite
I didn't realize Nokia was sponsoring this project. That's very cool.
Lots of reasons: The Ubuntu Mobile Edition (uses Hildon, will be shipping on MIDs soon), Nokia's sponsorship of this port (so, presumably they'll make the proprietary hw bits work), Ubuntu's every-six-months release cycle, version 8.04 receiving security updates until 2011 ...
Originally Posted by finite
I think Nokia believes (1) the user base of the Maemo devices is so small that criminals aren't going to waste their time targeting the device, (2) that the firmware is changing so rapidly (a new version each year) that the already small target of the NITs is also moving rapidly. I think Nokia knows that the predators attack the weak and slow of the herd...
But what I'd really like, besides access to the thousands of packages in these distros, is security updates from people who take it more seriously than Nokia does...
...Nokia does not even bother with security updates...
...I guess Nokia just assumes nobody would ever load PDFs from untrusted sources on their tablets... or that security of always-on internet devices with cameras and microphones just isn't that important?
EDIT: Before I start a flame war, I just want to say that I believe we should get regular security updates. I believe that, starting with Diablo, Nokia will have the infrastructure in place to be able to give us those updates without having to flash the firmware each time.
Last edited by qole; 2008-04-22 at 18:33.
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2008-04-22
, 22:15
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@ Northern California
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#58
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Originally Posted by qole
I think you're probably right about Nokia thinking that way, but imo Nokia is horribly wrong. It would be easy for an attacker to target an individual user with a link to a malicious PDF, or to target a large number of tablet users by posting such a link at a forum like this (or on IRC, or comments in a blog on planet maemo, etc). Shipping software with known vulnerabilities and not even having a mechanism in place to provide updates is really just irresponsible. In Nokia's case, they have a mechanism in place, but they apparently have a policy to not bother with upgrades until "Diablo" is released. The PDF bug I mentioned is the tip of the iceberg... anyone could search security lists for the names of any of the hundreds of out-of-date pieces of software in ITOS and they would probably find plenty more.
I think Nokia believes (1) the user base of the Maemo devices is so small that criminals aren't going to waste their time targeting the device, (2) that the firmware is changing so rapidly (a new version each year) that the already small target of the NITs is also moving rapidly.
Originally Posted by qole
Um, wouldn't that be us tablet users here? Releasing a few updates a year is not what I could call "moving rapidly". Compare this list of known vulnerabilities in Firefox with the about: screen on your tablet's browser.
I think Nokia knows that the predators attack the weak and slow of the herd...
Originally Posted by qole
It will be interesting to see if an updated version of osso-pdf-reader ships in diablo, or after diablo, or ever... as I said, technically the infrastructure to provide updates is in place already, and it has been since the 770 days. They just don't use it. If Nokia cared at all about security, we would have updates available in the application manager today. What exactly Diablo is going to enable them to do that they couldn't do already isn't really clear to me.
EDIT: Before I start a flame war, I just want to say that I believe we should get regular security updates. I believe that, starting with Diablo, Nokia will have the infrastructure in place to be able to give us those updates without having to flash the firmware each time.
BTW, if you'd like to read PDFs on your NIT without being vulnerable to the three issues in that advisory I mentioned, the new Evince that was recently released uses libpoppler2 version 0.6.2-1.maemo1, which (according to this) includes fixes for those bugs.
Unfortunately, though, I was unable to install evince when I just attempted to, because the unrar package is not in the repositories. Yet another thing that would work right if we had a real distro instead of this ITOS garbage...
Last edited by finite; 2008-04-22 at 22:20.
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2008-04-22
, 22:31
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Posts: 4,708 |
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Joined on Oct 2007
@ Bulgaria
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#59
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Originally Posted by finite
You're rather wrong here - you can't blame Nokia that you can't find the not released by them deps to a not released by them package. Its another question that their package manager prefer to not resolve the dependencies of a package not coming from a repo..
Unfortunately, though, I was unable to install evince when I just attempted to, because the unrar package is not in the repositories. Yet another thing that would work right if we had a real distro instead of this ITOS garbage...
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2008-04-22
, 23:02
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Posts: 22 |
Thanked: 30 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Northern California
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#60
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Originally Posted by Bundyo
You're right, I can't blame Nokia for unofficial packages' dependency problems; but can't I blame the lack of a real distro?
You're rather wrong here - you can't blame Nokia that you can't find the not released by them deps to a not released by them package. Its another question that their package manager prefer to not resolve the dependencies of a package not coming from a repo..
Unrar is in the non-free and multiverse sections of Debian and Ubuntu, respectively, so if/when the ITOS ever gets in sync with those distros there wouldn't be a need for a Maemo-specific unrar package.
And that lack of a real distro... I think we can blame Nokia for that. But, of course, the whole subject of this thread is that they may finally be getting on the right track in that regard.
It would be really nice to have some official word about what (if any) relation this "mojo" port has to the future of ITOS. I pinged qgil, hopefully he'll weigh in.