Active Topics
-
Error after installing Leste on sdcard (13)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by Maemish - 5 hrs, 35 mins ago -
TLS 1.2 for N9 is ready (29)
to MeeGo / Harmattan by smatkovi - 14 hrs, 24 mins ago -
Camera phone competition March 2023 "Endless" (35)
to General by Maemish - 3 days, 23 hrs ago -
Maemo repository (3)
to Community by torsen - 4 days, 16 hrs ago -
Introducing ubiboot N9 (multiboot OS loader) (1,393)
to Alternatives by smatkovi - 6 days, 20 hrs ago - more...
 |
|
2008-08-26
, 19:16
|
|
Posts: 1,436 |
Thanked: 3,144 times |
Joined on Jul 2005
|
#122
|
Originally Posted by qole
FYI, that's built in to itT already. If you use the search feature on the main page, it produces a better result, showing different ways to filter them.
The Google Search does not have this problem;
__________________
Reggie Suplido
Reggie Suplido
| The Following User Says Thank You to Reggie For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2008-08-26
, 19:43
|
|
Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
|
#123
|
Originally Posted by qole
qolling, qolling, qolling...
...and I'm usually there, right in the middle of it.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
| The Following User Says Thank You to Texrat For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2008-08-27
, 01:04
|
|
Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
|
#124
|
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Theres one important factor you're not including: tone.
That's exactly the point Tex, and well put...
The perfect example is a question "How do I boot from my SD card?"
There are about (at least) 3 complete How-to's; all different approaches and yet all functional ways to do this. So when I come across this question I have 3 choices:
1) Explain, all over again, all the steps involved in booting. (Sorry.. I don't have the time - or the patience)
2) Do the search the asker should have done first, find the post, copy the link, and give it to him (thus; throwing him the fish; I can only do this so many times before I get bored - and eventually annoyed.)
3) Tell the asker the answer is out there.. he just need to search for it. (easy for me; and provides him direction).
Thus.. many people choose option 3.. we keep our sanity - user at least knows his answer is lurking around here somewhere.. he/she just need find it.
Tablet Scene is built around options 1 or 2.. that's just not my scene. And I know I'm not the only one. I also know this is unfair for new guys - but at the same time... I (we) can't be fixing everyone else's problem, and our own, and still have anything productive for US get done.
And hell.. last I checked - the glass was damn near evaporated.
If you deal with customers it is very important to keep a nice tone. This makes a person feel comfortable. You can still tell the person he/she is wrong, and they're more willing to accept this if you assert it in the right way.
Instead of telling someone "you're wrong, idiot" you can say "perhaps if you look at it this and this way you notice". Or, "yes, we might have made a mistake there, but you should have done it right in the first place"; then working towards solving the problem. Another example: "UTFS!" or "Your question has been asked and answered already. Please, use the search".
The sarcasm smiley doesn't help either. The first and last line of a text are best remembered, and if the last part is a sarcasm smiley I guarantee you it doesn't arrive nice. Its often not used in combination with sarcasm, and often used to belittle the person directed at. Where is the respect? Is it that much work just to remember the other persons also have feelings? If you're not able to do that perhaps its better to not reply at all...
So in other words as the internet progressed, users regressed. Nice.
Seriously, I know people who'd fill in internettablettalk.com in Google search, and then click on the first hit. I can explain once or twice why they're being inefficient, but in the end it doesn't matter that much. Except for lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Besides that, if I search for something and Wikipedia has an entry and this entry is good enough why would I search further?
Here's a lecture by Fravia about searching and finding http://www.archive.org/details/Fravi...without_google his website is http://searchlores.org he's been into this subject for many years (10+)
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
|
|
2008-08-27
, 02:24
|
|
Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
|
#125
|
Originally Posted by allnameswereout
I don't think anyone here is paid customer support. Last time I checked, everyone that helps volunteers.
Theres one important factor you're not including: tone.
If you deal with customers it is very important to keep a nice tone.
Now, I'm not excusing any outright nastiness. But I do understand some of the testiness that arises. Since these are volunteers we're talking about, and this is not Nokia customer service, the "customers" have at least half a stake in this, too. That means doing their part to avoid wasting the time of those stepping up to help. Surely it's easy to see that saves them time, too.
I'm sure someone will throw out the fact that the people asking many of the questions are unsophisticated in the ways of technical devices, and that's why they're here. I don't accept that on face value. I question anyone who purchases an internet tablet without doing a bit of homework first. Heck, that includes almost any purchase. I don't expect anyone to read a few specs and become instant experts, but on the other hand, they should learn enough to think long and hard before making the purchase. Many of those popping in here turned out to have made impulse purchases, and they take their frustration out on forum members trying to help. They also show no interest in wanting to learn but instead want to be spoonfed. That rubs some people the wrong way.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
| The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Texrat For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2008-08-29
, 18:30
|
|
Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
|
#126
|
I found this useful post in the Newbie forum about how to use the search.
Based on the observed behaviour here and there its clear to me some people here wouldn't function at a job involving customer support.
As you pointed out, where there is conflict, 2 or more parties are involved. The parties should reflect on how to solve the problem(s) but because we are the party who is perceived as the wise ones (because we serve information), we should also behave in a adolescent manner.
The fact that this isn't paid customer support is related to the issue. If you'd be paid for helping a user there'd be a different set of rules, and perhaps such system might actually work on ItS.
That doesn't mean you should express yourself in the way you want to though. For example, one could ignore a stupid question, or kindly explaining the person the mistake they made, or kindly pointing to a howto which explains how to use the search effectively (or a useful post like the one I pointed at above). If you're not able to do this please don't reply. You're not fit to be in contact with this particular person on this particular subject.
I understand your point of view and am able to relate to it.
Ironically, those are exactly the kind of people who'd pay for customer support
There is no reason we have to accept frustration from any party. We should all do our best to limit events involving frustration.
Originally Posted by Texrat
Our treshold level of nastiness differs, that is for sure.
I don't think anyone here is paid customer support. Last time I checked, everyone that helps volunteers.
Now, I'm not excusing any outright nastiness. But I do understand some of the testiness that arises. Since these are volunteers we're talking about, and this is not Nokia customer service, the "customers" have at least half a stake in this, too. That means doing their part to avoid wasting the time of those stepping up to help. Surely it's easy to see that saves them time, too.
Based on the observed behaviour here and there its clear to me some people here wouldn't function at a job involving customer support.
As you pointed out, where there is conflict, 2 or more parties are involved. The parties should reflect on how to solve the problem(s) but because we are the party who is perceived as the wise ones (because we serve information), we should also behave in a adolescent manner.
The fact that this isn't paid customer support is related to the issue. If you'd be paid for helping a user there'd be a different set of rules, and perhaps such system might actually work on ItS.
That doesn't mean you should express yourself in the way you want to though. For example, one could ignore a stupid question, or kindly explaining the person the mistake they made, or kindly pointing to a howto which explains how to use the search effectively (or a useful post like the one I pointed at above). If you're not able to do this please don't reply. You're not fit to be in contact with this particular person on this particular subject.
I'm sure someone will throw out the fact that the people asking many of the questions are unsophisticated in the ways of technical devices, and that's why they're here. I don't accept that on face value. I question anyone who purchases an internet tablet without doing a bit of homework first. Heck, that includes almost any purchase. I don't expect anyone to read a few specs and become instant experts, but on the other hand, they should learn enough to think long and hard before making the purchase. Many of those popping in here turned out to have made impulse purchases, and they take their frustration out on forum members trying to help. They also show no interest in wanting to learn but instead want to be spoonfed. That rubs some people the wrong way.
Ironically, those are exactly the kind of people who'd pay for customer support
There is no reason we have to accept frustration from any party. We should all do our best to limit events involving frustration.
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
 |
|
2008-08-29
, 19:29
|
|
Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
|
#127
|
Originally Posted by allnameswereout
Don't extrapolate people's behavior online to possible job performance. That's a bit like observing somebody drunk at a party and deciding that they wouldn't be a very good employee. It just doesn't follow.
Based on the observed behaviour here and there its clear to me some people here wouldn't function at a job involving customer support.
Things work a lot differently when one actually has a reason for babying people. Like, say, getting paid.
Originally Posted by allnameswereout
Hey, ho, welcome to the Ubuntu forums, where nobody gets an answer on anything!
That doesn't mean you should express yourself in the way you want to though. For example, one could ignore a stupid question, or kindly explaining the person the mistake they made, or kindly pointing to a howto which explains how to use the search effectively (or a useful post like the one I pointed at above). If you're not able to do this please don't reply. You're not fit to be in contact with this particular person on this particular subject.
Personally, I'd rather get a snarky remark that points me in a useful direction than no response at all.
Last edited by GeneralAntilles; 2008-08-29 at 19:54.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GeneralAntilles For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2008-08-29
, 22:55
|
|
Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
|
#128
|
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I actually think it is probably safe to extrapolate a persons' behavior when drunk to their behaviour when sober. The person tends to be very much themselves, writ large, when drunk. I suspect you could say the same thing about a persons' online behaviour...
Don't extrapolate people's behavior online to possible job performance. That's a bit like observing somebody drunk at a party and deciding that they wouldn't be a very good employee. It just doesn't follow.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I'm doing my small part to make the Ubuntu forums a better place!
Hey, ho, welcome to the Ubuntu forums, where nobody gets an answer on anything!
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
Last edited by qole; 2008-08-29 at 22:58.
|
|
2008-08-29
, 23:31
|
|
Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
|
#129
|
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Funny. Ever had a business meeting involving alcohol? Now, reflect: do you feel what was being said there holds no value whatsoever? Important decisions are made on alcohol.
Don't extrapolate people's behavior online to possible job performance. That's a bit like observing somebody drunk at a party and deciding that they wouldn't be a very good employee. It just doesn't follow.
As for comparing to drunk. I don't believe anyone here is behaving like a drunk mofo. So the compare itself is a bit extreme.
I'm glad you mentioned the example though. Drugs don't morph one personality into a different personality. They alter someones behaviour. The personality is just the same whereas the output is different therefore you perceive different behaviour. One who's good with psychoanalysis can see through such though.
Hey, ho, welcome to the Ubuntu forums, where nobody gets an answer on anything!
Besides that, quantity doesn't matter. Quality does.
Personally, I'd rather get a snarky remark that points me in a useful direction than no response at all.
Now, lets see what happens of they get a reply. No matter what kind of reply, no matter the content of the reply, they'll use that as input. If it is a snarky reply it lowers the comfort level of the user because he/she feels insulted. They probably don't see how wrong they are themselves (lack of self reflection due to lack of knowledge about netiquette). The insulter got his candy though: he/she gets an ego boost from belittling someone. I don't believe this is the kind of behaviour we want on a open community.
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
 |
|
2008-08-30
, 02:07
|
|
Posts: 868 |
Thanked: 474 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Capital District, NY, USA
|
#130
|
I've posted once once or twice to tablet scene. I really don't have unlimited time or energy and it's become apparent that it's better to remain silent than give an answer that is not "appropriate" for newbies.
After experiencing the questions and feedback I now believe that another forum was a bad idea. Either the subform of iTT so that technical question can be moved easily or some sort of "Yahoo Answers" style feedback system.
After experiencing the questions and feedback I now believe that another forum was a bad idea. Either the subform of iTT so that technical question can be moved easily or some sort of "Yahoo Answers" style feedback system.
| The Following User Says Thank You to brontide For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
| Tags |
| newbies, tablet scene |
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 09:59.
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!