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2008-10-24
, 13:49
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#32
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Originally Posted by sondjata
In fact, no.
And sir, if you want to extend that "I refuse to take responsibility for what my ancestors did."
Then I suppose you wont be passing along any of your fortunes to your kids right?
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
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2008-10-24
, 13:59
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Posts: 151 |
Thanked: 11 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#33
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Originally Posted by ioan
You're free to use whatever words you want. That was my point. If you don't like the social consequences of your actions, that's irrelevant to the fact that there are no criminal consequences. Cultural taboos are a completely seperate issue.
Explain to me why a black person can use the word "negro" whenever, and I can't because I'm white.
It is taboo for white people to use that term due to the long history of oppression by white people against black people. It's not particularly difficult to see why it is considered offensive if you are familiar with American history. That's not to say taboos are rational. Quite to the contrary, nearly all are not.
Originally Posted by sondjata
No sir, your argument is bogus:
1) Native Americans didn't do **** to Europeans.
2) Ashanti's never did **** to Europeans.
3) Igbos never did **** to europeans.
4) Yorubas never did **** to Europeans.
5) Kikuyu never did **** to Europeans.
Shall I continue or has the point been made?
You're being intellectually dishonest. Did they do anything to deserve genocide? Of course not. But, to insinuate that they had achieved some sort of perfect, utopian society until Europeans came along and killed them isn't factual. To insinuate they never harmed or wronged any of their historical enemies, including Europeans isn't factual. History is far more complicated. It's entirely unreasonable to hold a whole race, European or otherwise, responsible for the actions of their ancestors. It's a perpetuation of the same type of racism that it claims to oppose.
Last edited by LordFu; 2008-10-24 at 14:11.
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2008-10-24
, 14:14
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#34
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Originally Posted by LordFu
No sir. Karel made a point that if you go back far enough everybody did something to everybody else. A position that is historically untrue and I gave 5 examples that destroyed that particular argument. The "everyone did something to everyone else" argument is an attempt to pass the buck. I made no claims of utopia or innocence on the part of the parties I mentioned. merely that as it relates to my commentary, Karel's argument holds absolutely no water.
You're being intellectually dishonest. Did they do anything to deserve genocide? Of course not. But, to insinuate that they had achieved some sort of perfect, utopian society until Europeans came along and killed them isn't factual. To insinuate they never harmed or wronged any of their historical enemies, including Europeans isn't factual. History is far more complicated. It's entirely unreasonable to hold a whole race responsible for the actions of their ancestors. It's a perpetuation of the same type of racism that it claims to oppose.
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2008-10-24
, 14:15
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#35
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Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
Good. You're consistent.
In fact, no.
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2008-10-24
, 14:17
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#36
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Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
You've made the point that only Europeans are to be helt accountable into the n-th generation. Whatever all those above did unto others, apparently doesn't count.
No sir. In the context of the conversation (Why can't I say "nigger") my point is in direct relation to the origins and reasons why it is bad form for someone not in the "black" in-group to not use the term. as posted previously and in this context what Yorubas, etc. did to Europeans (or did not do) is the only thing relevant to the conversation.
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2008-10-24
, 14:28
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#37
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Is anyone who inherits anything from anyone responsible for everything they ever did? My parents probably did bad things I don't even know about.
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2008-10-24
, 15:21
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#38
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Responsible. Is it responsible to vote one time every 4 years and for the rest do nothing?
Its conscious to realize the mistakes made in history. That way, by analyzing, you can learn the path these mistakes made, and make sure you recognize them next time, so you can evade such mistakes.
History, by both the oppressed, and the oppressor, is also passed on and on. Not always factually correct though, for the winner writes history.
I'm very well aware my country did bad things in its past and present, exploiting other people and countries for their own benefit.
For example, we West-Europeans dragged the Muslims from their countries (Turkey, Maroc) to come here and work for jobs we Europeans didn't want to do. As in, not even poeple from poorer European regions (Greece, Spain) wanted to do these anymore.
These people did not magically appear and decided to be Karel's PITA.
Its conscious to realize the mistakes made in history. That way, by analyzing, you can learn the path these mistakes made, and make sure you recognize them next time, so you can evade such mistakes.
History, by both the oppressed, and the oppressor, is also passed on and on. Not always factually correct though, for the winner writes history.
Originally Posted by sondjata
Please don't. Its already painful enough this way.
Shall I continue or has the point been made?
I'm very well aware my country did bad things in its past and present, exploiting other people and countries for their own benefit.
For example, we West-Europeans dragged the Muslims from their countries (Turkey, Maroc) to come here and work for jobs we Europeans didn't want to do. As in, not even poeple from poorer European regions (Greece, Spain) wanted to do these anymore.
These people did not magically appear and decided to be Karel's PITA.
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2008-10-24
, 16:16
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 190 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
@ Salem, OR
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#39
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I backing off this because for me, this kind of stuff doesn't make sense. I'm totally against racism or sexism of any kind and that is probably why I don't really get it. Only one race is allowed to say a taboo word and you try to tell me that is not pushing the racism forward? Anyway, I don't want to become a troll, so I'll back off.
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2008-10-24
, 16:26
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Posts: 192 |
Thanked: 60 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
@ Wichita, KS
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#40
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When the word "nigger" is used by a black american, it serves as a reminder that he's black, binds him to other black americans and separates him from all other races of americans, whether intentionally or unintentionally, consciously or subconsciously. This, my friends, is racism. I don't think that can be disputed. What's more subjective is deciding when racism is good and when it is bad...
My question for any black members who use this word is: Why?
Is it a social statement? Are you celebrating a historical bond among African-Americans? Or maybe it never seemed like a big deal to you, because it's always been part of the norm where you live?
(I'm not trying to attack or make accusations here; I'm honestly curious.)
My question for any black members who use this word is: Why?
Is it a social statement? Are you celebrating a historical bond among African-Americans? Or maybe it never seemed like a big deal to you, because it's always been part of the norm where you live?
(I'm not trying to attack or make accusations here; I'm honestly curious.)
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/