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itschy
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2008-10-24
, 16:35
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#41
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Originally Posted by pycage
Interestingly enough it neither aired in the UK (where it was produced) nor in the US.
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2008-10-24
, 16:58
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#42
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Originally Posted by jmjanzen
Best post so far!
When the word "nigger" is used by a black american, it serves as a reminder that he's black, binds him to other black americans and separates him from all other races of americans, whether intentionally or unintentionally, consciously or subconsciously. This, my friends, is racism. I don't think that can be disputed. What's more subjective is deciding when racism is good and when it is bad...
My question for any black members who use this word is: Why?
Is it a social statement? Are you celebrating a historical bond among African-Americans? Or maybe it never seemed like a big deal to you, because it's always been part of the norm where you live?
(I'm not trying to attack or make accusations here; I'm honestly curious.)
In fact, why would I want to call someone Nigger?
a) because that word derived from "negro" just meaning "black", describing the most obvious attribute and I don't know about the historical background.
b) I know well about that background and I use the word to offend someone.
If a), then how can I be blamed?
If b), then the intended goal is only achieved when the addressed person actual lets himself be offended.
To make this clear: I would never use this word, as I wouldn't address people using words like as*hole, ****, etc and I do not see any valid use for them.
Whenever someone I don't know uses them on me, I just think to myself "what a sad, pathetic person" and just ignore it. Why should I give a **** about insults by someone I do not care about?
So, I think the question here is: Why do black people make such a big deal about this and thus actually help racists?
I believe the reason is, that some feel better when they can seperate themselves from "white people" thus strengthening the bonds to other blacks*.
And I can see how this can be seen as racist...
*I'm referring to a sub group here, often calling themselves "gangstas", "gettho-kids" or such, not generalizing.
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2008-10-24
, 17:39
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Posts: 24 |
Thanked: 3 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
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#43
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I don't know why this is so hard to understand. It's like your family. I can talk as much crap about my family as I want because I grew up in it, went through situations with my family, etc.
But even try and badmouth my family and I will instinctively punch you in the face.
So if you're not black and you can't understand it, it's because you didn't grow up with their experiences.
But even try and badmouth my family and I will instinctively punch you in the face.
So if you're not black and you can't understand it, it's because you didn't grow up with their experiences.
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2008-10-24
, 18:33
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#44
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Originally Posted by geneven
Following Karel's logic, since he wasn't around for whatever his ancestors may or may not have done to someone elses ancestors he isn't to be held responsible for any of it. Ok then, If you can't be responsible for the bad, then you also ought not benefit from any possible gain that his ancestors may or may not have had from said behavior.
Is anyone who inherits anything from anyone responsible for everything they ever did? My parents probably did bad things I don't even know about.
That's the logic of his argument. I'm willing to go there so long as he's willing to give up any and all advantages he may have received on the part of his ancestors AND does not pass on any such fortunes (monetary or other) to his children.
Otherwise the argument falls on it's face in practice.
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2008-10-24
, 18:36
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#45
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Originally Posted by khaiqha
No it's not that hard. What we have here is classic "priviledge" rearing it's head. Even though in the context of the original thread there is no law stopping anyone from saying "nigger" Some people insist that they ought to have some privilege to intrude on another groups cultural space just because and complain when they get called out on it.
I don't know why this is so hard to understand. It's like your family. I can talk as much crap about my family as I want because I grew up in it, went through situations with my family, etc.
But even try and badmouth my family and I will instinctively punch you in the face.
So if you're not black and you can't understand it, it's because you didn't grow up with their experiences.
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2008-10-24
, 18:39
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#46
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
if you've followed me on the other political thread you'll know that I feel that voting is the very LEAST one does in a democracy. And I do mean LEAST.
Responsible. Is it responsible to vote one time every 4 years and for the rest do nothing?
PITA.
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2008-10-24
, 18:39
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#47
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Originally Posted by sondjata
According to that reasoning, you shouldn't use an alphabet to write, because it got here through the Romans, who did some very bad things (but they were, I admit, rather undiscriminatory in their atrocities).
Following Karel's logic, since he wasn't around for whatever his ancestors may or may not have done to someone elses ancestors he isn't to be held responsible for any of it. Ok then, If you can't be responsible for the bad, then you also ought not benefit from any possible gain that his ancestors may or may not have had from said behavior.
That's the logic of his argument. I'm willing to go there so long as he's willing to give up any and all advantages he may have received on the part of his ancestors AND does not pass on any such fortunes (monetary or other) to his children.
Otherwise the argument falls on it's face in practice.
The "if you don't accept the blame, you can't take the profits" reasoning fails along the same lines as the "everything is relative" adage.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
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2008-10-24
, 18:45
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#48
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Originally Posted by ioan
For the record, the only reason I've even entertained this discussion is because generally I find the level of intelligence here to be above par. Normally I would have put such a thread on ignore a long time ago.
I backing off this because for me, this kind of stuff doesn't make sense. I'm totally against racism or sexism of any kind and that is probably why I don't really get it. Only one race is allowed to say a taboo word and you try to tell me that is not pushing the racism forward? Anyway, I don't want to become a troll, so I'll back off.
Asking someone to not use historically derogatory words in reference to another group is not perpetuating racism. Though I would ask if you have the same opinion when it comes to say Jews. What it is is r-e-s-p-e-c-t. If you are unawares of the history, then this is an opportunity to do the research so you understand. As posted by someone else it is simply a matter of if you're not in the in-group (whatever group that may be) you don't use certain phrases. Per your Feminist angle, I assure you that calling a feminist a ***** (or any woman a "*****" within' earshot of just about any woman) will have rather grave consequences. But for a female to do the same does not carry the same weight. Double standard? Probably, but you know what I have more important things to deal with then why I can't use a certain term under certain circumstances. Really in the end it's not that big a deal for either one of us.
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2008-10-24
, 18:51
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#49
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Originally Posted by jmjanzen
I suggest a read of the slave narratives as I discussed in an earlier post. The evolution of the word and it's use within and without the black community (in the US) is very long and complicated. far more complicated than can be gotten into here.
My question for any black members who use this word is: Why?
Is it a social statement? Are you celebrating a historical bond among African-Americans? Or maybe it never seemed like a big deal to you, because it's always been part of the norm where you live?
(I'm not trying to attack or make accusations here; I'm honestly curious.)
I will say this though, generally speaking, there is an inverse relationship between the historical knowledge of the black N-word user and the frequency of the use of said word.
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2008-10-24
, 19:00
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#50
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Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
hmmmmm...an unavoidable cultural happening(writing,music,maths) vs. deliberate genocide... Equal. Fine then, you win.
According to that reasoning, you shouldn't use an alphabet to write, because it got here through the Romans, who did some very bad things (but they were, I admit, rather undiscriminatory in their atrocities).
The "if you don't accept the blame, you can't take the profits" reasoning fails along the same lines as the "everything is relative" adage.