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2009-01-12
, 11:06
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#262
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Originally Posted by Andre Klapper
dont do - me chuckle - people stare - could get stuck writing like this.
Also had marketing lectures at university - theory was simple to learn by heart - acting was much more difficult - suddenly there was reality - had to realize and adapt - full sentences not required
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2009-01-12
, 11:31
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Posts: 302 |
Thanked: 254 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#263
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In terms of both hardware and software/OS, the direction where Nokia (Maemo) is heading appears to be somewhat confusing to the current OSS-developers and the noticeably OSS-friendly userbase (after all the NITs have so far been best known as *Linux tablets*); to the extent that Nokia now seems to be after new "simplified" userbase while still hoping to take advantage of whatever the OSS "community" can provide.
The "new userbase" wouldn't have much interest in running non-fingerized/hildonized Linux ports though so out goes backward compatibility with past modus operandis, including the DPAD.
How many of the existing apps in various repos will be ported to Nokia's new finger-only platform? How many of those apps *can* be ported? How many of the developers are looking elsewhere for a hardware platform that is willing to accommodate them?
AFAICT the existing community has had next to no input on the hardware design of the "N900". On the phone side Nokia has probably over a hundred wildly different models in production at any given time but they do not seem to be interested in building a couple of (two) slightly (externally only) different next-gen tablets that would cover both the OSS/developer crowd and the targeted finger-only masses.
Wrt. DPAD, I've found it useful for basic navigation, esp. in many non-hildonized Linux ports, although admittedly it is often impossible to guess how the DPAD will behave in any given situation. It really shouldn't be a huge obstacle to create/maintain bindings in toolkits that take advantage of that external navigation aid when applicable. If anything, I might prefer a well-designed "Jog Dial" type nipple (Sony has a patent for it AFAIK) which would not only facilitate basic 4-directional navigation, easy scrolling and mouse button 1+2 (longer press) functionality, but also full free form 360-degree guidance which would open many new uses in both Linux ports and newly developed apps.
Finger-only operation is fine if the target market (incl. developers) is happy with strictly limited "walled garden".
Providing alternative input methods (DPAD/Jog Dial and/or keyboard) doesn't preclude developing - or even emphasizing - finger-only mode, but instead keeps the door open for the existing community and their varying "universe" of applications.
PS. and somewhat off-topic: Finger-only apps should be provided with an API for creating simple "training wheels" GUI grid over the screen to guide which areas of the screen can be used for what types of touch actions.
The "new userbase" wouldn't have much interest in running non-fingerized/hildonized Linux ports though so out goes backward compatibility with past modus operandis, including the DPAD.
How many of the existing apps in various repos will be ported to Nokia's new finger-only platform? How many of those apps *can* be ported? How many of the developers are looking elsewhere for a hardware platform that is willing to accommodate them?
AFAICT the existing community has had next to no input on the hardware design of the "N900". On the phone side Nokia has probably over a hundred wildly different models in production at any given time but they do not seem to be interested in building a couple of (two) slightly (externally only) different next-gen tablets that would cover both the OSS/developer crowd and the targeted finger-only masses.
Wrt. DPAD, I've found it useful for basic navigation, esp. in many non-hildonized Linux ports, although admittedly it is often impossible to guess how the DPAD will behave in any given situation. It really shouldn't be a huge obstacle to create/maintain bindings in toolkits that take advantage of that external navigation aid when applicable. If anything, I might prefer a well-designed "Jog Dial" type nipple (Sony has a patent for it AFAIK) which would not only facilitate basic 4-directional navigation, easy scrolling and mouse button 1+2 (longer press) functionality, but also full free form 360-degree guidance which would open many new uses in both Linux ports and newly developed apps.
Finger-only operation is fine if the target market (incl. developers) is happy with strictly limited "walled garden".
Providing alternative input methods (DPAD/Jog Dial and/or keyboard) doesn't preclude developing - or even emphasizing - finger-only mode, but instead keeps the door open for the existing community and their varying "universe" of applications.
PS. and somewhat off-topic: Finger-only apps should be provided with an API for creating simple "training wheels" GUI grid over the screen to guide which areas of the screen can be used for what types of touch actions.
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2009-01-12
, 13:07
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#264
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Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing
AFAIK, the Maemo team is not a part of NRC. I think you guys are now being a little too cute. You invited feedback on the tablet HW, and now that you've got it (and it isn't what you expected?), there is this attempt to separate the two. Yes, there could be device variants. But some of us know Nokia. We know Nokia will not release a N900, a N901 and a N902 all at the same time. And I doubt you will externally license Fremantle so that others can produce differing devices. We know that if Maemo 5 is released, and the only tablet does not have HW keys, then development for HW keys dries up. You probably know that too.
I think the point Quim was trying to make is that our work in Maemo Software is a R&D function. That is 50% R and 50% D. A lot of our work is research at one stage of a project and development at a a later stage when we built a piece of software for a device. Especially, our work in open source is partially separate from the work to built devices. You will see increasingly more and more contributions to upstream projects not only for Fremantle but also Harmattan. To make conclusions from open source contributions about individual products becomes increasingly difficult. Work in open source should not by linked too close to products as long one competes with closed operating systems.
And the issue still remains unanswered of whether Maemo 5 will still support the existing HW keys.
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2009-01-12
, 13:23
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#265
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Originally Posted by ragnar
That's not accurate: the N810, as you know, does have a d-pad. Do you mean to qualify that statement as "without a d-pad on the face"?
And now it's been several years with a D-pad device (770 and N800) and also several years with the N810 device without a D-pad
Originally Posted by ragnar
That doesn't look like reasoning based on usability testing, but rather, just assumption. ???
so I do dare to say that a) most users didn't really use the D-pad when they had one with the 770 and the N800 and b) more importantly, most users do not miss it when it is gone from the front cover with the N810. "Most users" of course means that not everybody acts the same, but "most" is a better target than "some"
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-01-12
, 13:36
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Posts: 631 |
Thanked: 1,123 times |
Joined on Sep 2005
@ Helsinki
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#266
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Well, yes. I consider the N810 D-pad almost like cursor keys, since it's really intended for text input and not much more.
That's not accurate: the N810, as you know, does have a d-pad. Do you mean to qualify that statement as "without a d-pad on the face"?
Originally Posted by Texrat
Well, how would you then do reasoning based on usability testing? We have done comparitive testing with D-pad on the front cover and no D-pad on the front cover, parallel and sequential, and we have data of how users use the device in these cases, and we can draw these conclusions. And using many different kinds of test methodologies. How is that only assumption?
Me: so I do dare to say that a) most users didn't really use the D-pad when they had one with the 770 and the N800 and b) more importantly, most users do not miss it when it is gone from the front cover with the N810. "Most users" of course means that not everybody acts the same, but "most" is a better target than "some" Endquote. That doesn't look like reasoning based on usability testing, but rather, just assumption. ???
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2009-01-12
, 13:38
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 182 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Leeds UK
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#267
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Originally Posted by qole
http://shop.orange.co.uk/shop/mobile...and?WT.svl=206
My biggest concern right now for the new device is that I can't see myself being able to afford a(n) HSPA plan.
...
Anyone have some real-world numbers for me?
This isn't a precise one, but its 15 quid for 3Gig, and the costs are coming down fairly fast.
So I am hoping that by the time the N900 comes out it will be 15 quid for 10G, whereas it's about 30quid a month at the moment.
The main problem is that roaming costs are still nasty, esp outside the EU
Of course if you are in the US I would expect much higher costs, as the mobile infrastructure there is quite a few years behind everywhere else, so they haven't screwed everyone for as long yet for the upgrade costs ;-)
__________________
Life on the edge....always waiting to fall
Life on the edge....always waiting to fall
Last edited by deadmalc; 2009-01-12 at 13:39. Reason: G for 3G could be confusing ;-)
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2009-01-12
, 13:47
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Posts: 1,635 |
Thanked: 1,816 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Manchester, England
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#268
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Originally Posted by Peet
looking elsewhere you would have to re-port your apps anyway and all the popular handhelds have their own barriers.
How many of the existing apps in various repos will be ported to Nokia's new finger-only platform? How many of those apps *can* be ported? How many of the developers are looking elsewhere for a hardware platform that is willing to accommodate them?
I came to the NITs because of the software freedoms Linux gives us. I am free to install whatever I like and alter my system as I like which is why I am shocked by how resistive to new things people are.
If nokia or anyone else wants to supply a new game along with the next device thats fine, linux is a really good stable solid base to that and I'm sure we will enjoy playing Fremantle.
You are free to use it if you like, or you can reinstall one of hundreds of alternative OS distros and use their walled garden.
Open source does not mean backwards compatible with every bit of software since the birth of RMS.
Finger-only operation is fine if the target market (incl. developers) is happy with strictly limited "walled garden".
I have no problem pottering around my garden, its pretty and things work nicely and as expected.
At the same time I know I can walk out of the gate or talk to my neighbour over the fence.
Its a garden not a prison
__________________
liqbase sketching the future.
like what i say? hit the Thanks, thanks!
twitter.com/lcuk
liqbase sketching the future.
like what i say? hit the Thanks, thanks!
twitter.com/lcuk
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2009-01-12
, 14:02
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Posts: 137 |
Thanked: 138 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
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#269
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Originally Posted by lcuk
That makes two of us
[...] I am shocked by how resistive to new things people are.
To be honest, I think some people here seem very reluctant about changes to anything about the current-gen tablets, and that's OK of course. What I find slightly bothersome though is that everything not fitting their views is shot down and questioned. I'd really like to see at least some open-mindedness and a little trust in Nokia's UI designers instead of that persistant display of an "my god they're going to mess everything up" mentality without even giving the upcoming stuff a chance...
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2009-01-12
, 14:13
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Posts: 101 |
Thanked: 8 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#270
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< 200 $ in 2009 - http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit...5FS.pdf?fpsp=1
What Freescale i.MX515 and Canonical Ubuntu OS (or Google Android & Chrome & Adobe Flash) means for Nokia Internet Tablet N900 and Maemo ???
http://www.pcworld.com/article/15630...processor.html
Instead, the i.MX515 is targeted at netbooks that run on Linux systems, have an approximately 8 hour battery life, and feature 8.9 inch displays. The processor requires less power to run and doesn't need a heat sink or fan to cool as it is designed from a core used in communication devices like cell phones, Burchers said. The i.MX515 processor is based on the Cortex-A8 core from Arm, which can scale in performance up to 1GHz. It supports 3D graphics and can playback high-definition video.
Last edited by frank.wagner; 2009-01-12 at 14:29.
What Freescale i.MX515 and Canonical Ubuntu OS (or Google Android & Chrome & Adobe Flash) means for Nokia Internet Tablet N900 and Maemo ???
http://www.pcworld.com/article/15630...processor.html
Instead, the i.MX515 is targeted at netbooks that run on Linux systems, have an approximately 8 hour battery life, and feature 8.9 inch displays. The processor requires less power to run and doesn't need a heat sink or fan to cool as it is designed from a core used in communication devices like cell phones, Burchers said. The i.MX515 processor is based on the Cortex-A8 core from Arm, which can scale in performance up to 1GHz. It supports 3D graphics and can playback high-definition video.
Last edited by frank.wagner; 2009-01-12 at 14:29.
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