Page 2 of 8 1 2 34 Last »
Reply
Thread Tools
thp's Avatar
thp is offline thp
2009-06-19 , 14:57
Posts: 1,391 | Thanked: 4,272 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Vienna, Austria
#11
Having everything in Extras is great. Every now and then I browse the available apps from the application manager, and I won't spot any new apps that don't appear in Extras - I'd have to go and hunt for them on the web. Also, library conflicts are easier to debug when everything is in the same repository, and duplicate work (as mentioned above - two developers packaging the same library in different repositories) is avoided.

It would be helpful if in addition to the web-based "Extras Assistant" there is again the option of using "dput" to upload source packages to the autobuilder (that somehow disappeared, I think).

Also, when the Maemo-specific lintian is in place, can we have something like "try to import this package/library from Debian into the autobuilder" using a web form or something similiar that imports a package and all its dependencies given that every package is "Maemo lintian clean" (I can't remember the name of the Maemo Lintian tool). This would probably also increase developer interest in the Extras repository (hey, I don't have to package that library myself, but can copy it from Debian directly to extras).

The cool thing with Mer is that they have the Ubuntu repositories enabled, so lots of libraries and packages are already there for us to depend on / install.
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to thp For This Useful Post:
Ed_ is offline Ed_
2009-06-19 , 14:58
Posts: 93 | Thanked: 73 times | Joined on Sep 2006
#12
Average tablet user can't distingwish between good and bad repositories. They're just using what they're suggested by developers. That's why reducing number of private repositories and encourage developers to use Extras is community task.

I've seen quite often suggestions like: 'go to gronmayer, select all repos and install'. There are 59 repositories for Diablo on http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ at the moment. Can you emagine what kind of mess it would be if user installs all of them. And whom user will blame in case of installation problems? Owner of that repository which caused that problem? I really doubt that. Most of users can't even understand this.
 

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Ed_ For This Useful Post:
qwerty12's Avatar
qwerty12 is offline qwerty12
2009-06-19 , 15:00
Posts: 4,274 | Thanked: 5,358 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Looking at y'all and sighing
#13
Originally Posted by thp View Post
there is again the option of using "dput" to upload source packages to the autobuilder (that somehow disappeared, I think).
Hmm? I dputted a package to the diablo-extras-builder the other day without a hitch.
Last edited by qwerty12; 2009-06-19 at 15:26. Reason: diablo-extras-builder...
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to qwerty12 For This Useful Post:
fredoll is offline fredoll
2009-06-19 , 15:06
Posts: 605 | Thanked: 137 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ La Rochelle, France
#14
Originally Posted by qwerty12 View Post
Hmm? I dputted a package to the extras-diablo-builder the other day without a hitch.
And to Fremantle too !
__________________
PWSafe PhoneLink ContactInfos Gnokii-GConf Denemo GRCM
 
Ed_ is offline Ed_
2009-06-19 , 15:08
Posts: 93 | Thanked: 73 times | Joined on Sep 2006
#15
Originally Posted by thp View Post
It would be helpful if in addition to the web-based "Extras Assistant" there is again the option of using "dput" to upload source packages to the autobuilder (that somehow disappeared, I think).
As far as I know it's still possible to use dput. If you have problems with that you should go and file a bug for autobuilder component in maemo bugzilla.

The cool thing with Mer is that they have the Ubuntu repositories enabled, so lots of libraries and packages are already there for us to depend on / install.
Me personally don't see much benefit in having Ubuntu or Debian packages rebuilt for Maemo without any change. This can be useful for developers, but definitely not for endusers. Applications without hildonization are ugly and almost unusable on the device. Commandline tools, libraries and other toys for developers may be recompiled without changes sometimes, but most of the time some tweaks are required anyway.
 
luca's Avatar
luca is offline luca
2009-06-19 , 16:36
Posts: 1,137 | Thanked: 402 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Catalunya
#16
Originally Posted by Ed_ View Post
Applications without hildonization are ugly and almost unusable on the device.
This is a serious shortcoming of maemo. While applications made for maemo should be obviously better, standard applications (if you want to draw a line make them use gtk/qt) should also work without being ugly and almost unusable. The screen real estate is there, the processor is almost there, the keyboard (either physical or onscreen) is there.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to luca For This Useful Post:
zerojay's Avatar
zerojay is offline zerojay
2009-06-19 , 17:00
Posts: 2,669 | Thanked: 2,555 times | Joined on Apr 2007
#17
Originally Posted by jeremiah View Post
Firstly, they see the issue of personal repos as a problem for users since there is no way to do quality assurance on a private repo.
Uh... what?! Doing QA on any repo would be the same and would be no different than doing it on any other, Maemo or not. There are plenty of repos out there for different distros that do have QA... so... ?

Originally Posted by jeremiah View Post
If a user downloads something nasty their entire tablet experience is negatively affected.
How about we avoid this negative experience by just closing the tablet down to 3rd party software completely? Sounds great to me!

If other people want to have external repos, the owners of that external repo should be the ones doing QA. If they don't do it, it's their own fault. If users download apps from an external repo and it doesn't work properly, oh well. Not Maemo/Nokia's fault.
 
GeneralAntilles's Avatar
GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-06-19 , 17:12
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#18
Originally Posted by timsamoff View Post
Until then, is there something that can be done to entice developers to go through the current process of getting into Extras? (Unfortunately, I'm not so sure the "make it easier on end-users" argument will work with a lot of people.)
Easy, karma. Karma equals device programs (hopefully) and sponsorships.
__________________
Ryan Abel
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GeneralAntilles For This Useful Post:
Ed_ is offline Ed_
2009-06-19 , 19:01
Posts: 93 | Thanked: 73 times | Joined on Sep 2006
#19
Originally Posted by zerojay View Post
If other people want to have external repos, the owners of that external repo should be the ones doing QA. If they don't do it, it's their own fault. If users download apps from an external repo and it doesn't work properly, oh well. Not Maemo/Nokia's fault.
And what should user do?
Imagine the situation: User installs all those 60 repositories and uses them. After some(very short) time of installing software from there she faces installation problem caused by conflict between library a from repository A and library b, which is conflicting with library a and required by package, which user tries to install. How user should know what's the problem and how to fix it? By not using repository A or repository B, or what? She even doesn't know from which repository out of those 60 she installs software.

This and many similar situations just can't happen if user would use Extras with minimal QA.
Last edited by Ed_; 2009-06-19 at 19:41.
 

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Ed_ For This Useful Post:
attila77 is offline attila77
2009-06-19 , 20:10
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#20
Originally Posted by zerojay View Post
If other people want to have external repos, the owners of that external repo should be the ones doing QA. If they don't do it, it's their own fault. If users download apps from an external repo and it doesn't work properly, oh well. Not Maemo/Nokia's fault.
I've been thinking about this, and it's not the same. Take for example Debian or Ubuntu. Pushing stuff into their equivalent of extras is far, FAR more difficult than maemo, however, their repositories contain 99% of packages a user will ever need. Hence, repositories are not a big deal, most users will never find out what they are and what trouble they might cause.

On ther hand, in maemo land, until the recent extras consolidation effort, using a hundred unsynchronized and unrelated repositories was the norm and it was already turning into a mess.

To recap my opinion - for a power user, who knows what's he doing, private repos are ok. For a newbie, it's a disaster as he won't know what hit him when things go south. That's why (from a user's perspective), private repos should not be the endorsed norm, but the (understandable and justified) exception - and that's why we need a strong (and full) extras
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to attila77 For This Useful Post:
Reply
Page 2 of 8 1 2 34 Last »

Tags
maemo repos packages

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:43.

Contact Us - Home - Archive - Top