Ok, here's one topic I'm sure a lot of folks can chime in on.

Basically the question is, how can we encourage more (a.k.a. average) developers to develop on the Maemo platform, how can we kick start apps development, and how can we produce a snowball effect of apps?

An interesting blog post from Daring Fireball reveals what looks like Microsoft offering selected iPhone developers to port their apps to the new upcoming Zune. Good strategy?

I saw Peter tweet confirming a talk in the summit on developing widgets, a good option for some to create small, compact, nice looking and helpful widgets.

Quim re-tweeted about Qt's new extended partner program, that applies also to Maemo. A Qt talk is also scheduled at the summit.

There are also the "Harmattan Highlights - Developer Opportunities", "Developing apps with Nokia Web Runtime", "Biz apps on Maemo" talks, all happening on the first day of the summit.

I really don't want to put pressure on th Nokia folks talking on the first day but hey, this summit will be an important one. Maemo hasn't gotten this kind of attention (ever!), and with all the buzz that Maemo will be the next Symbian blah blah, a lot of eyes will be focused on the event. It will be a huge opportunity to show what Maemo is capable of. Sure, the summit has to make users want the new Maemo device, but I think most importantly, make developers want to develop for it.

So, what would make regular developers develop for Maemo? Is the Maemo development environment too complicated? Is there room for web-based apps? Is an 'app store' needed? Should developers be allowed to sell their apps? Are developers more motivated to keep improving their apps if they can sell them? Paid apps equals better quality?

Let's hear 'em.

I think an apps store is a great idea, we could use paypal for our purchases. All apps should have a 30 day trial period. Purchase should include unlimited updates.

I'm not sure i want the average developers of the iphone...

But imho the success of the iphone was in the easy way users are able to buy the developer's apps. Make an user-friendly AppStore and the developers will flock no matter what the hassle is for them as long as the users can find and buy their apps with a click (or a touch .

The problem with providing monetisation in App Mgr (or downloads.m.o, or packages.m.o), say via PayPal is the technical restrictions to prevent piracy.

Nothing too invasive, but you want to prevent anything rampant. Would it be enough to just provide a one-time use install link? A "XB-Requires-Payment: 0.99" header in the package (you then have a daemon which prompts the user for payment after 14 days for any packages)?[1] Do users like to pay for the apps on their desktop? Download them there too?

The big initial attraction for developers to the iPhone were, IMHO:

• A compelling user experience: it was a nice device to use as an everyday tool, so they then could scratch-their-own itches.
• Very powerful debugging and development environments which were simple to set up.
• A compelling user experience which gave them a high bar to aim for, and an easy route to getting those same experiences from their own apps.

See also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCGTZ-1LGRw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J715B63ddfY

That set up a self-feeding circle which got more users, developers and applications - so money and micropayments do seem to be the primary factors now.

I don't know if the same factors will be repeatable now for a relatively "new" platform; which is also competing on the same ground, for similar mindshare and developers with Android and webOS. I suppose we'll see... :-/

[1] Hmm, I seem to have come up with a monetisation/donation system which could make me money without any changes or modification by Nokia. All I'd have to do was to ship this payment daemon; applications which want payment then depend on it and I take a cut of the proceeds. Relatively trivial to circumvent for an advanced user, but for the everyday user, it might make some cash. Anyone want to help? ;-)

simple, make any future device the darling of the tech press...

May I ask who is the 'we' addressed in the question?
And if such AppStore idea is within what the 'we' can do.. or ask for?

I thought Maemo and its users pride themselves on having freedom? Having an app store means you must lock down at least part of the OS so that you couldn't just send over the files installed or the installation package.

I'm all for encouraging people to develop for Maemo (and I always have been), but trying to get iPhone developers on Maemo is the *wrong* choice. They're all about the cash and nothing but... and when they see there's no restrictions and very small installed base in comparison, they'll pass.

We need to get more of the open source community into developing for Maemo. We need to convince them that a Maemo device is what they want to have in their pocket for Linux on the go. We need to convince them that we have a solid development platform with plenty of like-minded developers willing to help.

If Maemo went the way of the iPhone... locked down, 99 cent fart apps, proprietary apps for accessing it... if even one file/folder on my Maemo device would be locked and inaccessable or have some sort of DRM, I would head to Finland and pull the plug on the entire Maemo project myself if I could.

I would much rather kill it and remember it free and open than see the shackles and chains start enclosing around it.

Maemo is something to give to the world, free and open to one and all.

I think that there is a general goal of attracting more developers to Maemo which is quite separate from the specific goal of attracting iPhone developers. I suspect it is more beneficial to work on this general goal (at least in the long run).

Not to over-generalize, but for a mobile platform to be attractive to developers, some combination of two factors is necessary:

1.) Easy to develop for
2.) Rewarding to develop for

I realize that sounds obvious, but the two are inversely related. A developer may be more willing to write an application for a platform that isn't all that rewarding if it's easy to do, and conversely, they will rationalize difficult development in an environment where the reward potential is great.

iPhone development seems to understand both. Developing for the iPhone is fairly easy (I am referring to the actual development, not the process of getting an application approved), and considering the install base of the platform, as well as the public and media attention surrounding it, it is quite rewarding.

Maemo is sort of the worst of both worlds currently. I'd argue that it's not all that easy to develop for (easy being relative, it is in fact not incredibly difficult to develop applications for Maemo), and other than the philosophical satisfaction one might get from sharing their work, not all that rewarding.

Dealing with the second part (rewarding) is entirely dependent on Maemo devices becoming more popular. With the release of the Freemantle device (whenever that is), it appears Nokia is targeting a larger market. This bodes well for developers. While Nokia has said that they are very pleased with the adoption of the current tablets, I would be very surprised if their adoption has been large enough to make them attractive to third-party developers.

Speaking to your specific question about encouraging iPhone developers, I see that as a tough proposition. The bottom line is that the vast majority of iPhone developers are opportunists (I don't use that term derisively), they have no underlying loyalty to the iPhone, they just see it as the best way to get their applications out there (or the way that involves the least amount of work for the most reward). If the story about Microsoft paying developers to port those apps to the Zune is true (which would be a good move on Microsoft's part) than that merely changes the second part of the value proposition (it increases the reward of writing an app for the Zune to be sufficiently greater than the challenge of writing it).

In iPhone App world (a neighboring but not necessarily friendly ally to Free Software Maemo world) developers are primarily swayed by the thought that they can make a bunch of money by selling pretty straightforward apps. While certain examples have borne this theory to be true, a lot of developers find that the "race to the bottom" in regards to pricing dis-incentivizes working on complex or large applications.

I don't see how to make these people want to develop for Maemo (short of Nokia offering them a bunch of money, which I don't see happening). As it stands, there is no commercial market set up (and I suspect if one existed, it would be very unpopular with a lot of the community here), no way to prevent piracy, and no large user base.

I also don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. While people who dismiss the iPhone app store as "a collection of fart apps" are being incredibly obtuse, the reality is that it is predominantly a marketplace with applications that have a fairly simple functionality (albeit implemented in a useful way) or application which allow a mobile experience of something that a company already has established (slingplayer, skype, qik, etc.)

I should also say that I personally use an Android phone (not for philosophical or technical reasons, merely a matter of cell provider strengths where I live) and I find their development process to be about in the middle. Applications aren't as easy to develop as iPhone applications (mostly due to the sdk being in more of a state of flux than the iPhone sdk), but I would say easier than Maemo applications; and they aren't as rewarding as iPhone applications (as Android phones, while increasing greatly in number, still aren't as popular as the iPhone) but have a larger potential than current Maemo devices.

Whatever the path chosen, Nokia has to make enough money from Maemo to make it worth their while maintaining the project to use it in their future products. Be it from hardware sales, revenue sharing of software licensing, content provisioning or whatever.

One of their primary competitor in this segment is doing all of the above. Guess what Nokia has to do to remain competitive?

It means that if you want an App Store which isn't trivial for an advanced user to circumvent. But a micropayment system which was obstructive enough for the average user wouldn't need to harm the openness of the Maemo platform.

There are a lot of people who want to get into mobile development now because of the iPhone - and it's presenting Maemo as an attractive proposition to them which needs to be considered.

I don't think "we don't want that kind of developer" is going to work well for a platform which wants to be mainstream (or more mainstream than it is now).

Can't we have both? :-)

If we had to prioritise, I'd want the open source group too; but historically they've not been very good at pulling in mainstream users - with Firefox being one of the sole exceptions.

And if Nokia are trying to push Maemo more mainstream, they've got more to lose and the platform has higher expectations to live up to. We're actually lucky that number of apps and number of developers are actually metrics the industry is caring about - possibly even more than number of users.

I don't think there's any need for a) Maemo to have DRM or proprietary apps to manage it or b) anything to be forced on people. But a glut of 99 cent fart apps shows that there are a lot of developers for the iPhone - and even if only 1% of them produce something good or useful to someone, that's still a lof of good apps.

Besides, a 99 cent fart app may not appeal to you or I; but it may appeal to the 15 year old at school and act as a gateway into mobile programming. And they might produce something more useful. If nothing else, it's viral enough to drive a few sales based off "look what I can do with my phone".