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2009-09-02
, 18:36
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Posts: 2,427 |
Thanked: 2,986 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#22
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Originally Posted by sevla
It's not just you; a physical keyboard is an albatross as far as I'm concerned.
I find capacitive touch screen typing in landscape mode with auto correct to be light years better then full qwerty keys.. It's just easier to lightly tap the screen instead of physically pressing buttons.
Maybe it's just me.
The Maemo 4 word prediction is very good. Give me something like that with auto correct features and secure persistence between reboots and we'd be cookin'.
I'm not a zealot about touch screen technologies, but one nice don't-think item about capacitive screens is that you can wipe them off or put them in your pocket without having to lock them first. Over time, this starts to become a big deal.
__________________
N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
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2009-09-02
, 18:48
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Posts: 244 |
Thanked: 155 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ DC
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#23
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
I was referring to the Iphone. Typing on the n97 is a chore. This is one of the main reasons I want to write a virtual keyboard for the n900. That and the virtual keyboard layout is just bonkers imo. If the n900 keyboard is better then I may not have a problem with it but virtual typing is still better for me personally. Yes there is a learning curve but once you get over that hump you'll be amazed at how fast you'll be able to type.
Which capacitive touch screen are you referring to?
Both text input methods take time to get used to; learning curve.
When I write something I sometimes want to read or see what I'm replying to during writing. Full focus allows better focus and less distraction but has also its disadvantages.
Same for virtual keyboard. A virtual keyboard takes away a considerable part of the screen. Especially in landscape mode this is irritating me. while in portrait mode I make too many mistakes on input keys (experience comes from iPod touch).
The n900 has a considerably higher resolution then the iPhone so a properly designed vkey board should only take up about 40% of the screen. Considering that you really only need to see the text field you are typing into then it's really not that big of a deal.
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2009-09-02
, 18:54
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#24
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@selva
Lets hope that much thought has gone into the N900 on-screen keypad, or at the very least that its easily-replacable!
YARR!
}:^)~
Lets hope that much thought has gone into the N900 on-screen keypad, or at the very least that its easily-replacable!
YARR!
}:^)~
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2009-09-02
, 18:54
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#25
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@sevla: considerably higher resolution, but still the exact same screen estate\size. I don't think it's a good idea to reduce the keyboard size further, especially on a non capacitive screen. Else you'd be forced to use the stylus or grow one from your nail 
PS: from the n900 demo videos, I saw all the testers were typing very quickly, effortlessly and comfortably. All good signs of a good keyboard. I also had my reservations about the keyboard (3 rows, non centered spacebar, no d-pad... and 3 rows.), but seeing the demo videos relieved me a bit.
Last edited by ysss; 2009-09-02 at 18:56.
PS: from the n900 demo videos, I saw all the testers were typing very quickly, effortlessly and comfortably. All good signs of a good keyboard. I also had my reservations about the keyboard (3 rows, non centered spacebar, no d-pad... and 3 rows.), but seeing the demo videos relieved me a bit.
Last edited by ysss; 2009-09-02 at 18:56.
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2009-09-02
, 19:11
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Posts: 341 |
Thanked: 607 times |
Joined on Dec 2008
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#26
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Originally Posted by ysss
I honestly wish that would be true, as I expect many devices to drop the keypad in the future. Typing on the N900 keypad is pure joy (I can't stand the N810 keypad either by the way), and it gives much more control while viewing (and interacting with!) the entire screen, including games. It will take a lot to make me replace the N900 with a keypad-less device in the future.
"although typing on the iPhone is much easier than any of Nokia's Qwerty keyboards."
"It doesn't feel quite as slick at loading pages or scrolling as these rivals - while you really need a heavy site to slow down the 3GS, but my dusty personal archive took about 20 seconds to load on the N900, which felt like ages."
"For example, the purpose of double-tapping in the iPhone's browser is not merely "zoom", but "zoom to fit" a block of text. The former may require you to faff around for ages, the latter lets you get reading much faster. Has Nokia got some cultural prejudice against both reading and writing?"
Oh, and he didn't whine about the landscape-only operationSo that's a great sign!
So instead of comparing the N900's support of portrait orientation to other devices' support of portrait orientation, I believe it is fairer to compare the N900's support of portrait orientation to other devices' support of landscape orientation (e.g. the Palm Pre).
Much more complete coverage of portrait usage would have required a large amount of resources, and then it becomes a question of priorities. Doing a half-assed job on this would have lead to more confusion than it's worth, if users have to keep switching back to landscape all the time anyway.
I don't think it's a big deal, considering that you can still hold the device in one hand quite comfortably, and one hand is usually sufficient to scroll and read content at least.
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2009-09-02
, 19:16
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#27
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Originally Posted by sevla
Yes, maybe it'd function OK with 40% of screen used, but at least for me there are still issues:
The n900 has a considerably higher resolution then the iPhone so a properly designed vkey board should only take up about 40% of the screen. Considering that you really only need to see the text field you are typing into then it's really not that big of a deal.
1) I already find reading text easier in portrait mode while I find viewing a video easier in landscape mode. Even with higher resolution I still find the resolution of 800x288 too wide in proportion; albeit less of a nuisance than on iPhone. (Where IMO either the keyboard is usable but the view of rest is not good enough or your view is good but the keyboard is not good enough.)
2) I don't like different size of windows (content) all the time. Suddenly I have to scroll to see the text I reply to. Suddenly my gestures have less space than I'm used to. Something like a Fennec sidebar with swipe to left or right would suddenly overlap. Please keep my windows (content view) in fixed shapes as much as possible, and keep this hegemonic in the various applications.
3) I make less errors on a keyboard; this is important when doing command line work.
4) If you say its only needed when you are typing that is true however the exact same applies to a hardware keyboard use case.
We've seen some virtual keyboards here and there for Maemo 4, using QEdje and such. I think that'd be a good starting reference to see how those could be improved. Mer also has a virtual keyboard.
Maybe you can get a better answer from someone who worked on this at Nokia, like ragnar.
PS: Throughout the ages I've laughed at console games with controllers which did not have many hardware buttons, as well as iPhone. This is because users hail the gaming experience, while merely a few more good buttons would make the game performance so much more better. I seen a video of racing game on iPhone the other day. He appeared to accelerate on the touchscreen while using the accelerator to maneuver. So you have to move your hands/arms, and your fingers on touchscreen (covering it limited feedback from screen). 2 hardware buttons could have solved this. I don't think that is a good use case at all.
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Last edited by allnameswereout; 2009-09-02 at 19:20. Reason: Added PS
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2009-09-02
, 19:16
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Posts: 161 |
Thanked: 99 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#28
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but my dusty personal archive (http://andreworlowski.com) took about 20 seconds to load on the N900, which felt like ages.
I just can't imagine, that the browser of the N900 is really that bad.
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2009-09-02
, 19:30
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Posts: 341 |
Thanked: 607 times |
Joined on Dec 2008
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#29
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Originally Posted by ysss
I often actually appreciate when all necessary keys are closer to my fingers. Of course there is no denying that a separate row for numbers has a lot going for it, but otherwise I really enjoy the compact layout of the N900 keypad, which doesn't require much shifting of the fingers or the grip.
PS: from the n900 demo videos, I saw all the testers were typing very quickly, effortlessly and comfortably. All good signs of a good keyboard. I also had my reservations about the keyboard (3 rows, non centered spacebar, no d-pad... and 3 rows.), but seeing the demo videos relieved me a bit.
Incidentally, the most expensive desktop keyboard I ever owned, was one whose only merit was that it did exactly this to keep wrists always in their home position.
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2009-09-02
, 19:32
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#30
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Originally Posted by kanishou
Don't know about most devices or not. Or which devices? I don't use my laptop in portrait mode. Nokia has released phones using both modes such as Nokia Communicator, Nokia N95.
I think what some people are missing is, that few devices are completely landscape and portrait. But most devices are meant to be used in portrait mode, and have more or less complete coverage of landscape orientation. The N900 is meant to be used in landscape orientation, and I believe that is the right decision.
Most applications and websites are optimized for landscape mode. This has traditionally been an issue for mobile phones, and part of reason WAP browser was very different from desktop browser. However, now the two are growing more towards each other (because mobile phones support HTML, JS, Flash, have more raw power, colour, etc etc).
On portrait devices you'll still need 1) to grab the metadata and present it in their own way 2) seperate layout. This even more different than from desktop applications. So while Linux desktop applications won't run perfect on Nokia N900 they'll run better on this mobile phone than any other. Still, given the different hardware compared to desktop, a different UI and interaction with UI is necessary.
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
The finger keyboard occludes the entire screen, which isn't that great, but it works really well for quick text entry. It's pretty easy to get used to this via resistive, but I suspect capacitive (with multi-touch) would be easier than needing to ensure key-strokes are atomic (har har?). Of course auto-correct could be added to a resistive onscreen keypad, as well as other general improvements (currently, shifting == bawlz) including taking up less real-estate (so I can use it for terminal, etc).
Had I known I would have such a preference for on-screen, I would have gone with an N800. I rarely (read: never) use the N810 GPS due to lock times and lack of travel (har). Besides, SD storage isn't really a concern, and the N800 was oodles cheaper.
Here's to hoping Nokia releases a keypad-less N900z/N910/N900-slim or some such, although the N900 is still looking mighty good, keypad or not.
YARR!
}:^)~