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lma is offline lma
2009-09-04 , 08:13
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#31
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
But, but... the whole thing started because we concluded that bugzilla was too frightening for users, even for those with good ideas.
Hm ok, maybe I misunderstood the purpose then. The name suggested (to me) that it's a place to submit, discuss and hone ideas that would be entered and dealt with in bugzilla once they're mature enough. They would need to be handled in some bug tracker once it's time for developers to have a go at them, and please don't let them disappear into the internal Nokia one never to be seen again.

Does brainstorm solve the frightening users problem (honest question, I don't think I'm able to put myself in a "user"'s shoes)? I think the biggest complaint about bug trackers in general is the requirement for registration. Once past that hurdle, filling in one form on a web page seems just as hard as another. The only real problem I can see is that it can be tricky to select the right product/component sometimes, but that's what the bugsquad is for. Is there anything else that puts users off?

http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ was taken as inspiration.
But note that bugs.launchpad.net still handles specific requests that would be considered enhancements in bugs.maemo.org.

most users come up with ideas relative to one specific app
That's fine, it's the idea that has to be specific rather than the package it applies to. So "Drafts & Sent on IMAP server" is a specific idea that belongs in bugzilla, while something like "multiple identities" is open-ended (and bug 3409 only deals with some possible ways of satisfying this) thus better suited for brainstorm.

so anyway they would be directed to bugzilla, but now they have one degree more of difficulty by figuring out whether their idea is actually beef for the Brainstorm.
It's a double-edged sword. In many cases the line between bug and enhancement is very fine, and we see requests moving between the two regularly. This is non-disruptive and easy while it's just a one field change in bugzilla, but is going to be a problem if they have to be migrated across to a different system.

Also, what about the feature jar: will we need to pay attention to double rankings now?
Well, if we have multiple channels for user requests then it follows that we need to pay attention to all of them...

I guess I don't have any answers, but I wouldn't like to see enhancements taken out of bugzilla completely.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-04 , 13:45
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#32
Ideally every facet of maemo.org should rely on single signon. Currently I think I'm dealing with 4 but it's my understanding that issue is being addressed... which is good because as Ima notes it's important for casual users who will feel led to participate at a higher-than-usual level.

Jaffa's point about workflow is excrutiatingly important and illustrates why a thorough site map is critical.
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2009-09-04 , 14:19
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#33
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Ideally every facet of maemo.org should rely on single signon. Currently I think I'm dealing with 4 but it's my understanding that issue is being addressed... which is good because as Ima notes it's important for casual users who will feel led to participate at a higher-than-usual level.
Four? I think we're at three:
  1. garage.maemo.org/maemo.org/wiki.maemo.org
  2. talk.maemo.org
  3. bugs.maemo.org

But even with the places which share sign-ons, it's not single sign-on as I have to log in to each one (sometimes repeatably for the simple act of favourting an item in /news/)
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-04 , 14:34
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#34
Ah, you're right, 3 it is.
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Reggie is offline Reggie
2009-09-04 , 14:40
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#35
I think the concept of Brainstorm is great. It can be really efficient if there is an organized way of adding stuff in there, and not just have anyone say 'add this feature because *I* need it.' It must be presented better, if it will be an official 'suggestion source' for the Nokia Maemo team.

I think the first thing that needs to happen is for end-users to get their N900s. Then, maemo.org can hold like a monthly or quarterly community meeting to solicit suggestions. This will be the source to add a handful of suggestions to Brainstorm for each community meeting.

With regards to the community meeting, a more end-user-friendly online service should be used (that means not on IRC). Someone moderates, polls are pushed, etc. To attract attendees, local blogs should remind everyone about the online meeting.

After the meeting, someone assigned will add the suggestions to Brainstorm together with a short list of proposed solutions.

Lastly, a post on News need to be made on what was added.

Another missing component is a way the Maemo team can communicate the status on brainstorm items. Status can be something like investigating, under development, approved, rejected, etc.

Being open and more organized I think is the way to go.
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Last edited by Reggie; 2009-09-04 at 14:43.
 

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geneven is offline geneven
2009-09-04 , 15:02
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#36
Ok, I have a question. For a long time, months and months, and perhaps still now, the version of FBreader available here was obsolete -- to get the decent version you had to go to the FBreader site -- otherwise you got a version that didn't download automatically from Project Gutenberg.

I pointed this out at least twice in my usual undiplomatic manner in Talk and no one paid any attention and didn't fix it.

In the current situation, what should I do with such a problem/question/suggestion?
 
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2009-09-04 , 15:08
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#37
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
Ok, I have a question. For a long time, months and months, and perhaps still now, the version of FBreader available here was obsolete -- to get the decent version you had to go to the FBreader site -- otherwise you got a version that didn't download automatically from Project Gutenberg.

I pointed this out at least twice in my usual undiplomatic manner in Talk and no one paid any attention and didn't fix it.

In the current situation, what should I do with such a problem/question/suggestion?
First step: email the package maintainer:

http://maemo.org/packages/view/fbreader/

Then, if you don't get a satisfactory (or any) response, start asking the community for someone else to take over maintaining it.
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qgil is offline qgil
2009-09-04 , 19:35
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#38
Originally Posted by Reggie View Post
I think the first thing that needs to happen is for end-users to get their N900s.
I thinfk the first thing that needs to happen is that you all agree what do you want to do with the Brainstorm and start exercising. Then when end-users get their N800s and come here there is some process already running to which is easy to adhere.
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Reggie is offline Reggie
2009-09-04 , 19:42
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#39
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
I thinfk the first thing that needs to happen is that you all agree what do you want to do with the Brainstorm and start exercising. Then when end-users get their N800s and come here there is some process already running to which is easy to adhere.
The only problem now is what to put there, as no one has a N900 yet. Should we start having developers add technical brainstorm suggestions there, or should we start adding items there based on the demos we've seen on YouTube?
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danramos is offline danramos
2009-09-04 , 20:44
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#40
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
The product planning team is ready to follow the Brainstorm. My only objection to call it "THE OFFICIAL" feedback channel is that people might think that Nokia doesn't do anything else to get feedback (sounds simplistic if you have the lightest idea of how these companies work, but apparently there is a % of people that think "Nokia doesn't listen" unless you have a Nokia employee active in the thread or blog post where the proposal or rant is made).

brainstorm.maemo.org (looking forward for this subdomain, as discussed) must have the same status than bugs.maemo.org. Counting that bugs.maemo.org is being increasingly useful as a feedback channel for bug reporting.
How about changing the article of that description from "THE OFFICIAL" to "AN OFFICIAL."
 
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