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geneven is offline geneven
2009-12-10 , 18:56
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#81
Originally Posted by shapeshifter View Post
How about first off all, you learn how to quote people in a forum. Thank you.
How about you learn how people have been quoted for many decades? You couldn't understand his quotations? I understood them very easily. Thank you.
 
vins is offline vins
2009-12-10 , 19:02
Posts: 50 | Thanked: 8 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#82
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
market cap is a paper statistic. A rumor alone could increase or decrease that number. I value Nokia only slightly lower than Apple, based on the applicable nature of its patent catalog, brand recognition, and the industry they are focused on. Apple has a flagging iPod division, a marginal if strong PC business, and the iPhone division, which has vast reserves, but no major service strategy and an App Store profit model that could be easily disrupted once the double edged sword of Symbian^4 and Maemo 6 come to dinner in 11 months.

Palm's market cap has jumped up and down on Nokia merger talk, but in real life, they are a collection of assets. Please believe if anyone wanted iin the mobile business, Nokia is the jewel of the industry. They have the number 5 most recognized brand of any consumer product, the best distribution network, most carrier support worldwide, major contol of two mobile computing platforms, the highest quality catography data company on the face of the earth, an enormous IP portfolio that nearly prevents anyone from building a mobile phone or network without paying them some royalty along the way, extensive media rights agreements in most regions of the globe, a burgeoning netbook position with full carrier support, a strong position in the BRIC markets, where the "next billion" will mostly come from, a growing services arm, and the control of an application and graphics framework to allow it to address 60% of the smartphone market, potentially all of it, and 100% of the desktop and server market.
Do you mean cartography? navtec? if it's the best, can nokia provide the best experience? I'm rather discouraged by listening to many people in the forum or outside shouting about the navigation in n900.

btw, i liked the idea of RIM making many of its home-brewed apps for YM, AIM, etc. those apps are very stable and solid. I used fring on my nokia and it sucks. I dont know if it still happen in e72. one more thing is that, I've just heard about bb appworld, and there're thousands of apps there. It's more informative, such as the price, etc. ovi had all its apps labeled "FREE". goddamn it is very2 annoying to install an app and to later know that it's demo version.

I liked the idea of n900 make a step further than RIM by integrating IMs into contacts. and more notification light, powerful UI, blablabla.... it just need a more solid program that's foolproof, to be the next most sophisticated mobile OS. by the time Qt incorporated into all nokia's platform, I'm sure it'll be a major mobile convergence in developer's view. anyway, your opinion? does nokia has that much time? RIM is trimming away its share, and it's not only a phone. it builds network around its bb messaging. i'm quite worried that when the time nokia finised, rim had gotten too wide and build a moat around its users.
 
OrangeBox is offline OrangeBox
2009-12-10 , 19:03
Banned | Posts: 291 | Thanked: 42 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#83
"I live to engage and expose ill informed chaps like yourself"

"Were you of any significance, I'd be roasting you as well, along with your TiPB brethren. But I'll let you make it. I suggest you do alot more studying, learn the industry from a global business perspective, and come back when you're more seasoned. You know a little, but have so much to learn... "

Well, what can I say? Above summarizes it all. Thank you and all your above quoted brethren for wasting your higher-plane existance on menial threads like this posted by insignificant, ill informed, uneducated people like myself.

I'm out. It's been an eye opener. Now I know that this is not a community that I want to belong to.
 
shapeshifter is offline shapeshifter
2009-12-10 , 19:04
Posts: 187 | Thanked: 345 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#84
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
How about you learn how people have been quoted for many decades? You couldn't understand his quotations? I understood them very easily. Thank you.
How did you know which quote was originally written by whom?
 

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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-12-10 , 21:57
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#85
Originally Posted by vins View Post
Do you mean cartography? navtec? if it's the best, can nokia provide the best experience? I'm rather discouraged by listening to many people in the forum or outside shouting about the navigation in n900.
I'm totally with you. I happen to like Ovi Maps on Symbian, but it could be much better, and navigation for free couldn't hurt. But Navteq has the most detailed map data by far, and the best map always wins. When you really get lost in an area with no data signal, you'll get it. And the N900's navigation isn't that bad, it just doesn't match S60's version..yet. Its almost there, though.

btw, i liked the idea of RIM making many of its home-brewed apps for YM, AIM, etc. those apps are very stable and solid. I used fring on my nokia and it sucks. I dont know if it still happen in e72. one more thing is that, I've just heard about bb appworld, and there're thousands of apps there. It's more informative, such as the price, etc. ovi had all its apps labeled "FREE". goddamn it is very2 annoying to install an app and to later know that it's demo version.
Fair enough. Fring sucked at one time, but on S60, it was good last I checked. I preferred the Gizmo client that used Nokia's Contact Services and integrated into the UI of the Contacts app, which, now that I think about it, was a precursor to the N900 Contacts app. There were no less than 10 IM apps for S60, and probably at least twice more (Just thinking of those I reviewed...), from Talkonaut and Slick to Yeigo and Palringo. The fact you had options was good, and blaming Nokia for a bad Fring is misplaced blame. Fring sucked on WinMo for awhile as well.

I really like RIM for their email prowess, but their application frameworks are so immature its sad. Java? In 2009? At least Android's JM is customized a bit. Nokia should've tried to buy them when their stock was low, and changed the Eseries name to Blackberry. Add the full BIS/BES support, add it to the Ovi services umbrella, and then Nokia would really be unstoppable! In the meantime, RIM should cooperate with Nokia on a Qt port to beef up its apps and share with Maemo, Symbian, and WinMo in the app compatibility goodness.

The Ovi Store is relatively new, and with a far greater support portfolio to manage. Progress has been slow, but steady. Layout and improvement will come over time, especially now that at&t is on board for 2010 Ovi Store implementation.

I liked the idea of n900 make a step further than RIM by integrating IMs into contacts. and more notification light, powerful UI, blablabla.... it just need a more solid program that's foolproof, to be the next most sophisticated mobile OS. by the time Qt incorporated into all nokia's platform, I'm sure it'll be a major mobile convergence in developer's view. anyway, your opinion?
Qt with total compatibililty with Maemo and Symbian is already here, as of a week or so ago. The big part is getting WinMo's compatibility up to speed (Not sure if they're still supported, but they were in past builds), and maybe RIM and Android ports of Qt. Then they can all use branded versions of the Ovi Store. That sounds like some world domination stuff, and it is. No one can address as many devices and desktop systems with one app framework other than Java, which sucks, other than Nokia. So everyone making apps, this is the holy grail.

"The sequence has begun. Commence world domination operations immediately"

does nokia has that much time? RIM is trimming away its share, and it's not only a phone. it builds network around its bb messaging. i'm quite worried that when the time nokia finised, rim had gotten too wide and build a moat around its users.
I didn't think so back in early 2008, but the fact that RIM has continued to grow even faster than Apple last quarter, and WinMo is relaunching right when Apple needs a refresh, and Android is the new iPhone, there are bigger worries in the middle (which is where Apple is, not the top) than the top. Blackberry will need an app framework upgrade, and a Qt port would help them best.

In all of that, only Google and Microsoft have the services besides Ovi. Blackberry's corporate mail system is a service, but other than that, they have nothing. Apple has its media hub, but nothing for businesses or consumers past that. Android is all about Google, but nothing else, which could hurt it in the end. Google doesn't need Android anyway, since they have every other OS in its grip as well. Google is locked out of some BRIC markets, and its privacy issues will keep China at alert. So the battle is Microsoft and Ovi. Ovi doesn't have to win, just get new consumers, which it is doing quite fast via Nokia Messaging and Ovi Mail. BRIC markets will insure that, so Nokia is in the driver seat as usual.

The fun has just begun...
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-12-10 , 22:24
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#86
Originally Posted by OrangeBox View Post
"I live to engage and expose ill informed chaps like yourself"

"Were you of any significance, I'd be roasting you as well, along with your TiPB brethren. But I'll let you make it. I suggest you do alot more studying, learn the industry from a global business perspective, and come back when you're more seasoned. You know a little, but have so much to learn... "
I put it pretty harshly, but I didn't mean it to come off so mean. I'll just say I've done alot of study in the markets, and you don't seem to be abreast of the situation at all except from the walled US perspective. You like the iPhone, which is ok, as well as Nokia, which is also ok. But its not a fashion show or a popularity contest. It is about customers, audience, and building brand loyalty. Nokia is the king of that.

Apple could claim 2/3rds of Nokia's smartphone share, and still, Nokia would represent the majority of phones sold. When you say Nokia's share can only fall, and Apple's can only rise, you ignore all rules of economics and enter fantasy land. You were grabbing at straws, and when you do that, I will give your ribs a kick. It is what I do. I won't do anything but use your neophyte statements against you.

Well, what can I say? Above summarizes it all. Thank you and all your above quoted brethren for wasting your higher-plane existance on menial threads like this posted by insignificant, ill informed, uneducated people like myself.

I'm out. It's been an eye opener. Now I know that this is not a community that I want to belong to.
If you left, I wouldn't cry. You seemed hellbent on becoming disruptive and negative, and to paint a picture only a blind man could see. I don't like guys that do that. You have to learn to listen to many voices, not just those that subscribe to your views. I think I've presented some decent facts for you to ponder, and you did as well, in the beginning.

But did you learn anything? Did you manage to get anyone to see any logic to your statements? I think I did and you didn't. I think you came here to sway others, to act as an apostate, as they call them in religious terms. But this business is run by many far smarter and informed than the two of us.

I didn't learn this overnight. I have read countless studies and reports, and I follow the Steve Jobs, OPKs, and Bill Gates of this world to get the whole story. You seem to have drank the Kool-Aid, as they say, spewn by those intent on raising money and inspiration from stockholders. That is all rhetoric. There's a million ways to skin a cat, an a such thing as a one hit wonder. Apple is successful, but the same things they're doing now, they did with the Mac PC. Where is it today relatively?

Consumers care about cost. Cheaper, more efficient, and more common always win. Until Apple can sell a smartphone for $250 without subsidy, it won't replace Nokia. And no one can do it but Nokia. Maybe the ODMs in China using Android and guys like Kogan, but they don't have the manufacturing power to do it in the scale Nokia does. Just the facts.

I suggest you start following this blog:
http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/
It is my idol and role model's blog, Mr. Tomi Ahonen, former Nokia executive and one of it not the most quoted and published mobile industry authors in the world. He's also a lecturer at Oxford. I've read two of his books, and he's always right. Period. You will learn alot from his insight.

I also follow Mark Cuban. He's just a genius, and thinks outside of the box. He's not always right, but his ideas are usually good, if not implemented well. Warren Buffet is another guy to follow.

Once you've read these guys books and follow their blogs and business moves, you can see there is always a big picture. You have to look deeper, and not be sentimental, like I sometimes am. I'm not a fanboy, but a big fan of Nokia philosophy and intention. I want them to succeed, because they only seem to want to improve access to technology, nothing more. They have to make a profit, but they don't seem so aggressive or predatory like other companies. Nokia and Motorola and hallowed brands for what they stand for, and I like them, and root for them. Apple and Google? Not so much. But they have good strategy sometimes too, especially Google. But Nokia is on a roll right now. Watch and see.
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stevelee24 is offline stevelee24
2009-12-10 , 22:27
Posts: 21 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Dec 2009
#87
anyone who thinks 500 is to much for a superb smart phone like this is in cloud coo coo land.
you have to understand how business works its not as simple as outlying costs for parts and thats your price
development
design
advertising
production
support
the list goes on all this costs money and at the end of the day nokia are a business not a charity yes ofcourse there out to make as much profit as possible if you dont like the price dont buy it
 
geneven is offline geneven
2009-12-10 , 22:47
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#88
Originally Posted by shapeshifter View Post
How did you know which quote was originally written by whom?
If that's your complaint then you should say "your quotes don't have attribution!' not "you should do your quotes like everyone else!"

Sorry, I OD'd on dumb comments I saw on this thread, such as "I was an experienced member of the debate team!" and "you are an insignificant person," (neither quote precise, but the idea was the same) and your comment seemed as extraneous as those others, which you didn't make.

I should just shut up; continue as you were!
 
shapeshifter is offline shapeshifter
2009-12-10 , 22:50
Posts: 187 | Thanked: 345 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#89
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
I should just shut up; continue as you were!
Ah well, vBulletin even has these useful little buttons you press to go to the original post the quote was taken from, and it's so easy to trace back the last few steps in the conversation this way, even if you just joined the conversation. With his post, I was just lost, it's just random quotes taken out of context. Anyway, I'll just shut up as well, no hard feelings, no offence meant
 
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qole is offline qole
2009-12-10 , 23:38
Moderator | Posts: 7,109 | Thanked: 8,820 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Vancouver, BC, Canada
#90
Originally Posted by OrangeBox View Post
No FM radio, but there is dual core cpu at 2.2 ghz. no bluetooth but there are 8 usb ports. no gps and accelerometers but 4GB of super fast ram.

Anything else?
Pop out the battery of the N900. Hold it in your hands. Maybe toss it into the air a couple of times. See how tiny that little battery is?

So how long do you think your dual-core 2.2 ghz laptop would run on a battery that small?

(here's a pic of the battery in someone's hand)



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