The components of a cell radio might not be an expensive ad-on but the FCC process for approval is much more costly than a non cell device.

So you don't think N900 (with or without phone) can do the above at least as well as the iPod Touch? Hmm...

As to the rest of the phone aficionados: again, no one here is against having the N900 as a phone; we just want to have a Maemo alternative with a larger screen, bigger battery, HDMI out -- all the features that seem to be incompatible with the mobile phone philosophy.

It's all about openness and freedom of choice, isn't it?

Also, I am getting tired of customers defending the business decisions of a company -- talk about fanboism -- whose side are you on, really?

Krisse and Chris: you're saying there's a Symbian phone that is as inexpensive as an iPod touch and offers a web-browsing experience superior to that of the touch? Great! Please provide a model number and link as to where in the US I can buy it.

I've no illusion that your position isn't overwhelmingly more common, but as one of those rare dwellers of that tiny island at the opposing pole, it was comforting for a time thinking a company as large as Nokia finally wanted to serve my niche. I wouldn't be holding an N900 right now were it not for those previous, "pocket Linux computer that's not a phone" devices. I wouldn't have a cellular phone at all.

The first Engadget posting about the 770 was the most exciting electronic device news I've ever read. I had printouts of the press photos pinned up all around my office. But were it not for joining the Maemo community to celebrate those early devices, I wouldn't have read more than the first line of any Engadget post regarding the N900. Just another phone.

At the most recent summit, Ari explained away the confusion. Nokia hadn't set out to make companion devices for cellular phones, and of course they hadn't set out to make my dream not-a-phone pocket Linux computer. Instead, they'd started the Maemo project to prepare for what was then a widely predicted future, one that never came. In that future, ubiquitous municipal WiFi networks made cellular networks and phones near-obsolete, and it might have been the Cisco iPhone that was making a grab for Nokia's lunch.

Of course, once the telecom companies spread enough money and lawyers around to kill what was to be Maemo's original playground, Nokia had to pull the project back into the conventional, cellular fold in order to drive it toward widespread acceptance and use. The move is very reasonable, quite understandable, and guaranteed to bring a wider audience. At the same time, it leaves some of us who grabbed on early as Maemo rocketed past our strange little niches slightly bewildered as to where we're going and whether it's safe for us to keep holding on.

Krisse, drop the straw man silliness. Find me a single post on this thread that says that there should not have been a Maemo device with cellular. (I could find you multiple instances on this thread where people who believe Nokia should already be offering a non-cell-enabled tablet have explicitly stated that they are "not anti-phone" and that they are not saying there should have been a tablet instead of a phone.)

Heck, I'm the OP and I'll even say that if Nokia had to come out with only a single Maemo device for this period, then a converged device was the smart choice. But I don't believe Nokia had to limit itself to a single device. Especially since it would seem to take very little engineering to offer a tablet once the N900 was being made.

Christexaport makes a strong argument that manufacturing a tablet would be a money-loser. I don't know enough to agree or to rebut it. It's the only argument I've heard, however, that could justify leaving that hole in the Maemo product line.

i think i still have the linux journal edition that featured a 770 on the front.

My argument was simply that Nokia isn't being stupid. Would I like a 7" Maemo tablet? Sure. But do I think Nokia is being stupid by not releasing it right now? Not so much.

I have not kept up with Maemo talk since it has become 99% N900 talk.
Have there been any hints, leaks, teasers, anything, from Nokia about an updated (non-phone) tablet?
My N800 works perfectly, is loaded with tons of data, entertainment,applications, etc. I pay for an internet connection at home and won't consider paying twice. Is there any hope from Nokia or should I forget about it?( and perhaps dump that Nokia stock I bought a few years ago when it looked like Nokia was leading in new directions)

OG Baby

Many of the rebuttals to the "ipod touch is not a tablet" argument are along the lines of "if you hack it...."

In my mind, that line of thinking is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

Because if you hack it.... Apple can (and has) arbitrarily decide to disable your device at their whim. Not to mention they will refuse to repair (HAH! everyone knows iPods are built to be replaced, not repaired) your device if they can show it's been hacked.

Now voiding your warranty for it, that's lame, but at least marginally justifiable. Outright disabling your device? That's just freaking evil and spiteful.

In my mind, this makes hacking the device an untenable solution for the vast majority of the population.

I will agree that a non-cellular freemantle device would be helpful for the development community.

If I was ever masochistic enough to get into the game of craps that is iPhone development/app store approval, I'd buy a iPod Touch.

Likewise, developers pleased enough with their existing phone would be more likely to develop for Maemo if they could get a cheaper device, certainly.

That said, the price difference between phone and non-phone n900's still wouldn't be nearly as great as in the iPhone/iPod ecosystem, precisely because the n900 will function without ever putting in a SIM card or signing a contract.

A developer wanting to get an iPhone (instead of the Touch) has to shell out over $1000+ over the course of the contract to use it in an Apple Approved manner.

This was the point I was trying to get at, even from the development perspective, the large price commitment from iPhone vs iPod Touch is almost entirely due to the carrier exclusivity deals and locked-down nature of the device.

I'm all for more options, bring on the tablet. Just want to point out that much of the reasoning on this forum used to justify "Nokia should...." are based on assumptions resulting from Apple's anti-consumer practices rather than true reflections of the technology and economics involved.

But the N900 is still larger, heavier and more expensive, and comes with a smaller screen more suited for telephony than internet or media usage. And it's the only Maemo 5 device there is.

And Apple indeed has two rather similar "tablets" of which the itouch is both cheaper and more popular than the iphone. The 3rd party developers (and Apple too) seem quite happy with that decision.

What anti-cellular movement??

It is in no way "anti-cellular" if some people want to use their tablet tethered to _other_phones_ for cellular connectivity or simply as WIFI or media tablets. You already know that cellular 3G or higher data connections are often limited (e.g. 1GB per month) and outrageously expensive.

I'm sorry but I find that argument wholly spurious. These _personal_ connectivity options do not noticeably add to the cost or phone-centric design complexity, and if it comes to that, these connectivity functions could easily be added via USB if you wanted to make the basic tablet cheaper still. Just as I can add EDGE/3G connectivity by tethering via my existing (Nokia) phone.

I understand that you come from Nokia/phone background and desperately want the (top-end) Maemo _phone_ to succeed, but just maybe the larger Maemo platform (and the lower end less-smart Nokia phones) would benefit from a cheaper "companion" tablet device. Do you have any arguments against that idea?

And a neat way around that globally widespread cellular data ripoff problem is to offer a more affordable modern Maemo 5 (and 6) based tablet which would lower the entry threshold and allow more people to experience Maemo.