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2010-01-15
, 05:58
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#52
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Originally Posted by qole
I think that's a little unfair. Certainly noise seems to be a factor. But Dave clearly listed a collection of functions of email he uses which he simply couldn't do with forum posts.
As I said before:
I certainly do NOT want to close the maemo-developers list, and I don't care about the maemo-users list.
This is the response I expected. A small handful of influential people will block any attempt to move the community list to a more public location, because it is less convenient for them, and for the very reason that it is more public, hence more noisy.
Personally, I prefer the forum because I can close my browser and say 'not now'. But I can well see advantages to email for others.
The question in my mind is what sort of integrated shared methods are possible?
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Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
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Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
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2010-01-15
, 06:14
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Moderator |
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Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#53
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I think the simple, non-technical solution is for discussion leaders on maemo-community to realize that any consensus reached on the mailing list is not a community consensus, merely a starting point to propose to the wider community.
This kind of core-group consensus can be very useful to focus the discussion that must occur on Talk on issues that affect the wider community.
What we need is a commitment from the discussion leaders to bring the topics here before making big decisions. In practice, this means the council, Nokia contacts (Quim et al) and maemo.org team (dneary et al).
This kind of core-group consensus can be very useful to focus the discussion that must occur on Talk on issues that affect the wider community.
What we need is a commitment from the discussion leaders to bring the topics here before making big decisions. In practice, this means the council, Nokia contacts (Quim et al) and maemo.org team (dneary et al).
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Thank you all for your donations!
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2010-01-15
, 06:18
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#54
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Originally Posted by qole
Nor is "consensus" on Talk.
I think the simple, non-technical solution is for discussion leaders on maemo-community to realize that any consensus reached on the mailing list is not a community consensus, merely a starting point to propose to the wider community.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-01-15
, 06:27
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Posts: 1,436 |
Thanked: 3,144 times |
Joined on Jul 2005
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#55
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I don't see pro-mailing list folks using it even if it gets implemented. As some folks points out:
The really simple solution here is to integrate vBulletin with the list software. This is an idea we agreed upon months ago and only seems to be waiting on somebody to implement it.
- discussion will not show as threads
- no easy way to collect contacts, or contact folks offline
- they will just refuse to use it
- no time to learn bbcode
- it's not as easy
Maybe this is the 'open source' developer mentality that I don't completely understand. In my neck of the woods, I design/develop/implement software for my customers and I work closely with them, since without them, I can't feed my family. They ultimately have the last say and I'll be out of work if I tell them it's my way or the highway.
Anyway, I've used a lot of programming tools and third party libraries at work, and support for those tools was never through a mailing list. It was all through forums, and it works.
Btw, I know Forum Nokia has discussion boards. Do they also use mailing lists?
Well, I've travelled this road several times before. Good thing we have the council to sort this out. Maybe, we could take the easy way out and just leave things as it is...
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Reggie Suplido
Reggie Suplido
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2010-01-15
, 06:56
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Moderator |
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@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#56
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RevdKathy: As always, you're right, I'm not being fair; I'm letting my frustration get the upper hand and I'm writing stuff that I shouldn't.
GeneralAntilles: You're right, too, consensus on Talk isn't community consensus either (There's a rare beast! Consensus on Talk!) but it is important to expose big issues to the wider community. More people need to hear about these things, so it isn't a shock when decisions are made.
GeneralAntilles: You're right, too, consensus on Talk isn't community consensus either (There's a rare beast! Consensus on Talk!) but it is important to expose big issues to the wider community. More people need to hear about these things, so it isn't a shock when decisions are made.
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Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
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Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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2010-01-15
, 08:02
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#57
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Originally Posted by qole
I think that last point is an important one.
RevdKathy: As always, you're right, I'm not being fair; I'm letting my frustration get the upper hand and I'm writing stuff that I shouldn't.
GeneralAntilles: You're right, too, consensus on Talk isn't community consensus either (There's a rare beast! Consensus on Talk!) but it is important to expose big issues to the wider community. More people need to hear about these things, so it isn't a shock when decisions are made.
There have been a couple of occasions when things have appeared and it's been obvious that discussion has gone on elsewhere. I assumed that was 'behind closed doors' stuff, but I suspect now it was stuff that had been debated in email. I wouldn't call it a 'shock' but a bitty of a surprise.
To be absolutely honest, I wasn't even aware that there was a specific email-list for community issues. (I thought the mailing lists were mostly for the complicated stuff I don't understand.) I should probably be on it (despite my aversion to mailing lists!) as my primary interest is the community and keeping it running smoothly. But for many of us raised for years on bulletin boards, this is the 'obvious' method. I'd wager a shilling that most of the thousands of new posters have no idea that there's a mailing list.
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
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2010-01-15
, 08:32
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Posts: 53 |
Thanked: 49 times |
Joined on Jun 2007
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#58
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Originally Posted by Reggie
You can skip those threads which you do not care for with mail, this is analogous to: I go to many forums and much I see on the screen does not interest me but I still have to read all the topics to find the ones I like.
The problem is there on both sides. I am subscribed to several mailing lists and I do get emails of topics I just don't care about. What's worse is that there is no unsubscribe for that particular topic, so I get all the email replies on that topic, forever...
There should be a mail-tmo bridge IMHO, then only high S/N ratio from forum should be somehow handled.. anyways usenet did this all better, but what can you do, when many people think internet is web browser..
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2010-01-15
, 14:34
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#59
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Originally Posted by VRe
OK, so you look at the topic in email and magically the ones you don't care for are skipped over and in a forum you have to read the topic to see if you care? cmon on people, can we get real.
You can skip those threads which you do not care for with mail, this is analogous to: I go to many forums and much I see on the screen does not interest me but I still have to read all the topics to find the ones I like.
There should be a mail-tmo bridge IMHO, then only high S/N ratio from forum should be somehow handled.. anyways usenet did this all better, but what can you do, when many people think internet is web browser..
To be clear, when the community forum is merged with the community mailing list, whether you read it in mail or on a webpage there will be a larger number of topics and a larger number of contributors.
I feel like many people on the mailing list don't want to hear peoples opinions on the forums, "its to much noise" "people on the mailing list are more engaged contributors" and so on.
Community is not "us vs them" its is "us vs us" We are all the same, developer, admin, hack, marketing, bloggers, and the list goes on.
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To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
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2010-01-15
, 14:48
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Posts: 4,274 |
Thanked: 5,358 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Looking at y'all and sighing
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#60
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Originally Posted by penguinbait
How do you figure that? The lists certainly don't have a bouncer at the door, so to speak; anyone is free to join and post.
I feel like many people on the mailing list don't want to hear peoples opinions on the forums, "its to much noise" "people on the mailing list are more engaged contributors" and so on.
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| Tags |
| communication, community, community = together, fragmentation, how can we be lovers, mailing lists, polarization, when we can't be friends? |
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The really simple solution here is to integrate vBulletin with the list software. This is an idea we agreed upon months ago and only seems to be waiting on somebody to implement it.
Ryan Abel