The Codenames page on the wiki is fairly useful.

Funny, the downloads is one of the bits round here I never did find confusing. And I joined just before Maemo 5 (fremantle) became the default view when you hit 'downloads'.

I browse the list using the linkie at the top of the whole site which says "downloads". I grant sometimes I find I'm looking at a shiney new app and wondering "What exactly does that do?" because the descriptions are sometimes so complex or advanced they go over my head. I work on the principle that if I don't understand it, I probably don't need it - at least not yet. Then when I find something I want, I simply use the n900 application manager to d/l it by name.

I do find the categories complicated - often an app is not quite where I'd expect it to be, but if I know its name, I can collect it from the 'all' list which is alphabetical.

Maybe I was lucky and took on board that 'fremantle' meant the version of Maemo that the n900 eats without noticing.

I do find the whole 'testing' business complicated: I still haven't found any formal way of giving feedback on the site, so I tend to do so either in the relevent thread on tmo or direct to the dev on IRC/twitter, since with most apps I'm testing I'm already in conversation with the people behind them.

I'm not sure what the average - certainly new - user would want with anything beyond ovi and extras, and just maybe testing. All of which are accessible via the n900 app manager.

Maybe making some connection on the front of tmo making fremantle more obvious? The previous incarnations have their year of release - fremantle just says "the current release". Given the huge surge in users, something in that description saying 'eg. n900' might resolve some of that uncertainty?

Just a suggestion.

Yes, I suppose the N900 is my first Linux computer, though by way of decoding my username, I was an owner of an Archos PMA400, which was also a marvelous, ahead-of-its-time, multi-tasking WIFI enabled piece of Linux-based hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archos_PMA400

I was never afraid to install things willy-nilly on it, and not afraid to fry/reflash; as I am (nearly) the same with my N900.

But the PMA community was very supportive, with multiple privately-hosted sites for applications-hosting, several robust forums (notably the Yahoo forum), and all of it was privately managed, i.e. independent of Archos (which pretty much washes its hands of their hardware as soon as the next generation comes out).

So while I am not completely new to the concept of an open hardware platform with a slightly higher-technical learning curve to it, I still am firmly in the camp that needs verbose explanations when it comes to things.


FWIW, I actually edited my original rant down a bit, because I thought I had put enough on my plate - but seeing as how this thread has been so lovingly relocated and renamed, I'll say one more that I feel applies to this topic here:

I really do believe that the issue I raise is a central one to the much larger debate of iPhone vs. Android vs. N900 (you know what I mean, I trust).

By making the hardware device modification/personalization so technical (I have personally never seen a forum with so much code thrown about so casually), the MAEMO/Nokia team is doing an awful lot to alienate potential customers; meanwhile, Apple and Google are going out of their way to make it easy to install and configure apps.

That means a lot to the average user. It just so happens that I have a slightly higher tolerance for discomfort, coupled with a slightly higher desire for personal freedom.

If you were to decrease mycombination of tolerance/desire down a notch or two, it seems to me you would end up with a customer that would get frustrated with the hardware's potential very quickly, and would bail out rather than do the hard work of figuring things out for themselves. After all, it's much easier to open your wallet than to open your mind.

You see my point? I hope I'm not coming off as a zealot here, but I think MAMEMO/Nokia could do a whole lot to make the user-experience a more pleasant and "seamless" one (i.e. not seeing the nuts-and-bolts side of things).

Once that hurdle was overcome, the quality of "freedom" that we all perceive in the N900 would become a commodity more easily perceptible, more easily attained, and so more treasured by the user

As it stands, it tends not to be so visible an attribute. (I think of all the cranky posts telling "I can't do this like I used to be able to do on appliance X".)

It's Maemo not "MEAMO" (it isn't an acronym ) and maemo.org isn't affiliated with Nokia, so the "Maemo/Nokia" team doesn't really have anything to do with the content of these forums.

If you want the easy-to-understand experience, stick to Ovi and Maemo Select. When you come to maemo.org, you're putting yourself in the deep end.

I'm sorry to say, it's precisely that attitue that I am addressing. You know as well as I do that if Nokia was dependent on the Ovi store to promote the capabilities of the N900 - well, let's just say there wouldn't be much demand for the N900 . Maemo.org is it - the built-in application manager direcly links here. Don't be so disingenuous about the relevance of TMO to the "average" user. Also, try to avoid the superior tone, while you're at it. It's that I was adressing, too, as being a disincentive to the typical user. There is nothing about "putting yourself in the deep end" by visiting the mainstay of information regarding the OS of your phone. This
http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/ is hardly a significant alternative, that I can see.

Please forgive my misspelling/misrepresentation of the brand name - call it an understandable error. As to what you're trying to imply by invoking the seperation of Nokia and Maemo, I can't folllow - Nokia depends on Maemo to do a job for them, i.e. to produce an OS that will satisfy the customer and exploit the strengths of the hardware - so if that isn't a team effort, I don't know what is.

Installation and configuration of apps should be trivial - just run App manager, select you app, install and go.

Most of the (complicated) discussion on here is about customising bits that Nokia weren't really expecting people (and other platforms make it impossible) to customise. At the moment it's still at an early stage, with people finding new bits and pieces to tweak (and occasionally bricking their N900s in the process). Eventually, I'm sure, there'll be apps written to simplify this whole process and make it trivial for the end user to do this themselves.

Yes, and average users don't need to do more than open up the Application manager and see the applications right there. They don't need to browse any websites to see them and don't need to worry about where they come from.

maemo.org is not a website intended to service average users, that means that there's going to be a lot of content here that isn't relevant to their interests.

What superior tone?

If you want the out-of-the-box experience, Talk isn't where you're going to end up. If you want something more, well, then it's probably worth preparing yourself to invest a bit more time and effort into the process.

Maemo is not the same thing as maemo.org. maemo.org is the home of the Maemo Community, Maemo is the Nokia trademark that identifies their Linux software platform. Maemo is produced by Nokia.

It seems to me that your basic premise may be a bit flawed.

Regardless of my misrepresentsation of the hierarchy of Maemo.org and Nokia, the premise remains the same.

The facts are plain; see them stated.

- Talk.maemo.org is a pre-installed bookmark in the N900 browser (as is likewise the more-frequently-than-not nonfunctioning Ovi store). It is a website encouragingly made available to all users from their first moments of use of the N900.

- By an overwhelming margin, the majority of the "out-of-the-box" downloads for the N900 come from files hosted at Maemo.org. Furthermore, they are made available to users on that site with big green "download" buttons. The web addresses built-in to the application manager tell a far more convincing story than the one you are trying to tell here.

- The Ovi store has been open for less than a month and contains four dozen free v1.0 toy applications - some of which come preinstalled on the device - and a few dozen nonsense podcasts and videos.

- Maemo Select? Five - five! - applications available for download - three of which are already hosted in the Maemo.org downloads section, one of which is preinstalled on the device. And don't leave out the Wallpapers and Themes sections - both "Coming soon"'.

No, I'm afraid I must disagree with you on all counts. Maemo.org is the proprietary source when concerned with support and development of the N900

These facts clearly cast Maemo.org as the responsible party for the user experience of installable applications. So I return to my original point - make the user experience more transparent on maemo.org, it will be to everyone's benefit. It serves no greater good to keep things archived and buried under arcane methodologies (with the exception of developmental apps and tools, of course).

And it is absurd for you to suggest that the Talk forum is for high-end users only. There is no other authoritative place for the "average N900 user", or anyone else, for that matter, to go. This is the superior tone of which I speak. There is plenty of room on these forums for the beginner and the advanced user alike. It is in no way an exclusive "deep end", although perhaps you would wish it to be so, or choose to perceive it to be such.

Despite my previous misunderstanding of the role of maemo.org, which thanks to you I now better understand to be a community forum rather than the mother-site for the maemo platform (and a proper name rather than an acronym), it still is demonstrable to me that maemo.org is the primary source for information and resources, for all N900 users, and I do not think you can prove it to be otherwise. So, my original point still stands.

And besides, from a marketing standpoint, and a cut-the-Apple-fanboys-off-at-the-knees approach, how cool would it be for the average user to be able to say, when asked "Where did you get that cool app?", with nonchalance, "Oh, it's just something I'm testing for Nokia and the Maemo platform..."

after that is done, next thing is

amen to this. if that isn't enough, one can just shut up and dig the info....

btw oldpmaguy, do you have visited wiki?