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	ewan	2010-03-01 , 15:36
	Posts: 445 \| Thanked: 572 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Oxford	#11

Originally Posted by qgil

So what about a "What can we realistically expect..." wiki page

To be completely clear; are you suggesting a page in which Nokia communicates with us what we can realistically expect, or a page in which we make wild uninformed speculations about it? In other words are you trying to remove people's fears, uncertainties and doubts, or simply contain them in one place?

Originally Posted by Texrat

"Our" is a really big set. You mean Nokia executive management.

Yes, as I said, I'm sure we understand that it's not Quim's call.

Quim's point as I understand it is that the decision is made high enough up that it's out of his hands, and ranting about it here is pointless at this time.

I (slightly) disagree. Ranting about it here does two things; it informs anyone coming into this community about Nokia's attitude to communication, which is useful information in itself, and it provides a body of evidence of the costs of that attitude which should be useful in helping people like Quim get a change from Nokia management.

Clearly, there is a problem, and Quim's trying to fix it/make it go away. My point is that the problem, and the solution, do not lie with this community, and therefore trying to deal with it here is, as you say, pointless at this time. We can't fix this, only Nokia can.

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	cashclientel	2010-03-01 , 15:44
	Posts: 663 \| Thanked: 282 times \| Joined on Nov 2009 @ London, UK	#12

People need to understand that the phone medium is highly transient, especially in the current market place. If it does what you need today and for the foreseeable future just live with it. In 18-24 months the N900 will be long superseded and forgotten about.

Why do people expect so much support from a phone manufacturer for a product that has already been out for a few months? The major bugs are now solved, and I can't see any reason why Nokia are going to invest any money in adding features.

The purpose of the Maemo platform from Nokia's POV is so they outsource the cost of developing 'features' and support to the community which does it for free. All they intended to provide is a viable starting point and then it goes loose.

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	Texrat	2010-03-01 , 16:02
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#13

Originally Posted by ewan

I (slightly) disagree. Ranting about it here does two things; it informs anyone coming into this community about Nokia's attitude to communication, which is useful information in itself, and it provides a body of evidence of the costs of that attitude which should be useful in helping people like Quim get a change from Nokia management.

I've seen rational discourse achieve many productive things, but I've yet to see much good come out of ranting (other than personal catharsis).

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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-03-01 at 17:31.

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	ewan	2010-03-01 , 16:17
	Posts: 445 \| Thanked: 572 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Oxford	#14

Originally Posted by Texrat

I've seen rational discourse acheive many productive things, but I've yet to see much good come out of ranting (other than personal catharsis).

Well, however you characterise the feedback that's being given, it's being given. I simply suggest that if there is a desire to stop the complaining, then the correct approach is to fix the problem that people are complaining about, not to simply try to stop them talking about it. Furthermore, fixing the problem is entirely within Nokia's power, albeit not Quim's personally, so that's where efforts need to be aimed.

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	omeriko9	2010-03-01 , 16:24
	Posts: 385 \| Thanked: 344 times \| Joined on Jan 2010 @ Israel	#15

Originally Posted by Texrat

I've seen rational discourse acheive many productive things, but I've yet to see much good come out of ranting (other than personal catharsis).

Perhaps not ranting per se, but stating the cooperative's lack of communication in hot subject.
It usualy leads to more aware consumers, which in turn refine (and sometime redefine) competition.

I personaly would have to agree with ewan, unless we misunderstood the purpose of the thread in discussion, and the intention was sort of realistic wish-pool/brainstorm for Nokia to pick from what it can/will to implement.

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	Texrat	2010-03-01 , 16:26
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Originally Posted by ewan

Well, however you characterise the feedback that's being given, it's being given.

You're still speaking too broadly. Some feedback is constructive, and some is not. Some is properly targetted, some is not.

Look, I tend to indulge speculation myself, more than Quim would prefer-- but I also recognize that there are reasonable limits and proper channels for it. If people truly want to facilitate change, then they target the right channels. Otherwise, they pointlessly rant whereever and whenever. Let's diminish the latter and push for the former, okay?

So... back on topic.

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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-03-01 at 16:29.

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Matan	2010-03-01 , 16:30
Posts: 1,224 \| Thanked: 1,763 times \| Joined on Jul 2007	#17

I suggest that users of talk.maemo.org should be allowed to discuss matters relating to Maemo as they wish, without Nokia censoring them. If Nokia do not like the speculations, the uncertainty and the doubt that surround Maemo and the N900, they know exactly what they need to do.

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"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".

No more Nokia devices for me.

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	Texrat	2010-03-01 , 16:33
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#18

There's been no talk about Nokia censorship, Matan. That is pure hyperbole on your part, contributes to the FUD and is counterproductive to this thread.

Back on topic, please.

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lemmyslender	2010-03-01 , 16:36
Posts: 968 \| Thanked: 974 times \| Joined on Nov 2008 @ Ohio	#19

Originally Posted by qgil

THIS IS A CONSTRUCTIVE THREAD IN THE COMMUNITY SUBFORUM. Repeated rants will be moved elsewhere.

It looks like almost any thread these days is good to derive in a "sure, but what about Harmattan/MeeGo running in the N900", followed by a chain of messages that don't contribute much more than bad community mood.

Isn't this an indication that the community (yes, not all the community) is interested in this topic? Lack of communication leads to speculation, leads to arguments, leads to bad moods.

You can say: "It's all you fault". Ok, so be it. Now, can we move forward here in maemo.org?

Sure, but ignoring it won't make it go away.

While it is true that Nokia hasn't communicated Harmattan or MeeGo official support plans for the N900, it is also true that all the FUD is not helping the average N900 user following Talk. We are in the best momentum Maemo ever had, sales and countries of distribution are increasing, Nokia cares more than ever about this platform and the team pushing it, entities like Ovi or Forum Nokia are putting more and more resources... and then poor Joe reading posts here feels "abandoned".

So why doesn't Nokia build on that momentum? It doesn't matter to the average user what Nokia is doing behind closed doors, they don't see it. What they do see are press releases and announcements that are carefully worded to leave ambiguity surrounding the N900/Maemo5 combination.

So what about a "What can we realistically expect..." wiki page + thread under N900 subforum to discuss and summarize the flesh around this topic, and clean the many senseless arguments and noise we can read these days among valid and licit doubts and concerns?

I see a wiki edit war over the nuances of what "turn-by-turn" means, or the latest blog/announcement/rumor. Not to mention a 100+ page thread like many of the other rumor/speculation threads.

If the intention is to remove the FUD from talk.maemo.org, then where will it go? It won't just disappear. Where can I share my thoughts and feelings (both good and bad) if not here? If you really try to eliminate FUD here, it will crop up on other sites, perhaps even specifically created sites. These sites will start popping up on google. What then? I suspect the FUD will grow exponentially as not enough people will care to monitor several sites and try to assuage doubts and fears other places. That would certainly harm the momentum for the platform if 3 of the first 4 links are to other sites overun with FUD.

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