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nidO is offline nidO
2010-03-02 , 14:32
Posts: 278 | Thanked: 303 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Norwich, UK
#11
Originally Posted by Rob1n View Post
Do you have a reference for that? The only legal definitions of piracy I can find specifically refer to acts of robbery/criminal violence at sea.
Most legal references to piracy do now also include notes that it can also relate to copyright infringement. However, they are all very clear on that point, they relate to *copyright infringement* not the "theft" or "stealing" of any work, and the reason for that is because copyright infringement is legally not theft or stealing in any sense whatsoever (under UK law along with most jurisdictions at least).
In english law, the definition of theft could not be more clear, and for something to qualify as theft explicitly requires that you deprive the victim of what you steal, exactly as Hossie's handy guide demonstrates.
 
Bratag is offline Bratag
2010-03-02 , 14:43
Posts: 2,014 | Thanked: 1,581 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#12
Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
i don't think that it is theft when you try to buy an app from the ovi store but you can't, because nokia has decided that people from third world countries like turkey shouldnt buy apps, and when you see the "this product isnt available for your country" message and know that everybody else is downloading it, you get mad and download it from somewhere else.

i would just buy it if i could.
So you justify getting the app for free and depriving Rovio of income by citing Nokia's failings. You aren't taking from Nokia - you are taking from a software house who has nothing to do with them.

I agree the market is a miserable POS. But it still doesn't justify "copyright infringement"
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Rob1n is offline Rob1n
2010-03-02 , 14:44
Posts: 3,617 | Thanked: 2,412 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Cambridge, UK
#13
Originally Posted by nidO View Post
Most legal references to piracy do now also include notes that it can also relate to copyright infringement.
I would still love to see a reference for this, as "legal definitions" are, by their very nature, written in as precise, clear, and unambiguous manner as possible (well, clear to other lawyers anyway - the language can be rather opaque for most of us). General online/print references may well use "piracy" interchangeably with "copyright violation" but I'd doubt that any legal definition/legal reference material would do this.
 
Bratag is offline Bratag
2010-03-02 , 14:46
Posts: 2,014 | Thanked: 1,581 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#14
Originally Posted by Rob1n View Post
I would still love to see a reference for this, as "legal definitions" are, by their very nature, written in as precise, clear, and unambiguous manner as possible (well, clear to other lawyers anyway - the language can be rather opaque for most of us). General online/print references may well use "piracy" interchangeably with "copyright violation" but I'd doubt that any legal definition/legal reference material would do this.
Google is your friend. This is simply the first hit

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/piracy
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Rob1n is offline Rob1n
2010-03-02 , 14:48
Posts: 3,617 | Thanked: 2,412 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Cambridge, UK
#15
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
So you justify getting the app for free and depriving Rovio of income by citing Nokia's failings. You aren't taking from Nokia - you are taking from a software house who has nothing to do with them.

I agree the market is a miserable POS. But it still doesn't justify "copyright infringement"
Indeed not, though I would have sympathy with those who download it elsewhere now, then pay for it when it actually becomes available again.
 
Rob1n is offline Rob1n
2010-03-02 , 14:58
Posts: 3,617 | Thanked: 2,412 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Cambridge, UK
#16
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
Google is your friend. This is simply the first hit

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/piracy
Many thanks. Interesting to note how old the usage actually is, as one of the references used there is an 1856 law dictionary. There's a pretty interesting writeup on the usage at http://www.infotoday.com/it/jun09/Dames.shtml - it seems to be very much a US usage, though even US federal law uses it purely to refer to theft at sea/air.
 
nidO is offline nidO
2010-03-02 , 14:59
Posts: 278 | Thanked: 303 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Norwich, UK
#17
Originally Posted by Rob1n View Post
I would still love to see a reference for this, as "legal definitions" are, by their very nature, written in as precise, clear, and unambiguous manner as possible (well, clear to other lawyers anyway - the language can be rather opaque for most of us). General online/print references may well use "piracy" interchangeably with "copyright violation" but I'd doubt that any legal definition/legal reference material would do this.
In the literal sense of legal statutes, within the UK the specific term of piracy does purely relate to the plundering and pillaging on the high seas (or in the air) form from the Piracy Act 1837 (details available from OPSI, or more conveniently wikipedia), and does not relate to copyright infringement in any way - That said, it is generally accepted (in common use as well as legal circles) that "software piracy" and similar do relate to copyright violations.
 
Seawolf is offline Seawolf
2010-03-02 , 15:20
Posts: 7 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Turkey
#18
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
So you justify getting the app for free and depriving Rovio of income by citing Nokia's failings. You aren't taking from Nokia - you are taking from a software house who has nothing to do with them.

I agree the market is a miserable POS. But it still doesn't justify "copyright infringement"
i don't justify it because i don't think that it is stealing. if i had an option i would have paid them. it is like this:

i cant buy it and dont pirate it -> i can't play it + no income for rovio.

i cant buy it and i pirate it -> i play it + no income for rovio.

i will pay them as soon as i have another option besides these two. (like donation or something)
 
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cashclientel is offline cashclientel
2010-03-02 , 15:41
Posts: 663 | Thanked: 282 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ London, UK
#19
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
Please don't encourage these people. Pirating the app is the no different than going into a store and taking something from the shelves and leaving with it. Unfortunately in this circumstance we don't have a large dude with a gun to grab you as you try to leave.
"...You wouldn't download a car..."
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Nokia are a business and have chosen a path of using the OSS community phenomenon to reduce their overheads specifically after sales support and development. Unlike Apple who do the opposite and make a killing from their Applications store.
Last edited by Flandry; 2010-03-02 at 15:46. Reason: Artifact of a previous edit made the quote misleading
 
fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-03-02 , 15:48
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#20
This is why I only use free apps.
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