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2010-04-15
, 19:09
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Posts: 889 |
Thanked: 537 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ scotland
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#52
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Originally Posted by javicq
yes i definately find your reasoning behind it more valid (not that anyones reasons are not valid but you know what i mean!) and more what the original question is trying to evoke on a moral level. yet in this instance you are sacrificing the 4 extra lives based on semantics and how you will personally feel about it later. is that the morally right thing to do?
Frankly, I find "not being a murderer" a far more reasonable and desirable goal than "being a savior".
In some way yes. But not as much as if you actively tried to affect the outcome of the situation. I know that the thought "I actively killed a man" would haunt me for life. "I refused to kill a man to save other 5 that would have died anyway if I wasn't there", not so much.
__________________
sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but its the only wit i have.
its a sad day when i can't slip at least one hitchhiker reference in somewhere.
sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but its the only wit i have.
its a sad day when i can't slip at least one hitchhiker reference in somewhere.
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2010-04-15
, 19:09
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Posts: 94 |
Thanked: 319 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ Barcelona, Spain
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#53
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Originally Posted by Sopwith
Funny you say that, beacuse dictators tend to be more of the "savior" than the "not murderer" type...
There are a few million "reasonable" people behind every dictator...
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2010-04-15
, 19:12
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Posts: 124 |
Thanked: 213 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#54
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Originally Posted by Sopwith
Godwin by allusion! Quite an achievement, sir!
There are a few million "reasonable" people behind every dictator...
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2010-04-15
, 19:16
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Posts: 889 |
Thanked: 537 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ scotland
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#55
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Originally Posted by Dak
i'm sure i already called godwin earlier in this thread! 2 counts by page 5? perhaps the maemo community should just abandon philosophy!
Godwin by allusion! Quite an achievement, sir!
__________________
sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but its the only wit i have.
its a sad day when i can't slip at least one hitchhiker reference in somewhere.
sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but its the only wit i have.
its a sad day when i can't slip at least one hitchhiker reference in somewhere.
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2010-04-15
, 19:19
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Posts: 889 |
Thanked: 537 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ scotland
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#56
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Originally Posted by Dak
sorry i didn't know i wanted to bring about an elitist societal ideal! wouldn't valuing one life over five be more of a elitist thing to do?
@festivalnut & mmurfin87 - you are both articulating the classic justification for "good samaritan" laws (there's an episode of Seinfeld about that).
The idea that inaction confers responsibility just as action does.
This flies in the face of one of the most important underpinnings of our concept of justice - mens rea.
This is why such laws are routinely struck down as being immoral, among other reasons.
The "good samaritan" concept is typically championed by those of a 'collectivist' persuasion, under the banner of 'social justice' - where the essential dignity of individual humanity is degraded into a statistical function, and people are no more than a herd to be administered with a view to balancing such a function so that an elitist societal ideal can be achieved.
Choose your bedfellows wisely
__________________
sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but its the only wit i have.
its a sad day when i can't slip at least one hitchhiker reference in somewhere.
sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but its the only wit i have.
its a sad day when i can't slip at least one hitchhiker reference in somewhere.
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2010-04-15
, 19:20
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Posts: 124 |
Thanked: 213 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#57
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Originally Posted by festivalnut
Merely mentioning the name "Hitler" doesn't count. It is the comparison of Hitler/Nazism to some aspect of a debate in order to fallaciously drag down anothers' argument, that is at the heart of Godwin's Law.
i'm sure i already called godwin earlier in this thread!
I needn't have mentioned Hitler, but it seemed expedient to emphasize the actual point that the people you save may not be very good people, and ultimately cause more harm.
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2010-04-15
, 19:23
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Posts: 124 |
Thanked: 213 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#58
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Originally Posted by festivalnut
That would imply I have some measure for evaluating their lives. I don't, and never claimed to. Therefore I cannot consciously choose to end any life over any other life. My rational participation in this scenario is not possible.
sorry i didn't know i wanted to bring about an elitist societal ideal! wouldn't valuing one life over five be more of a elitist thing to do?
However, as I mentioned originally, if my child/wife was among the 5, then I do have a rational basis for evaluating lives - namely that the life of my child/wife is infinitely more valuable to me than any of the other lives, and I will act to preserve it.
Last edited by Dak; 2010-04-15 at 19:26.
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2010-04-15
, 19:24
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Posts: 1,213 |
Thanked: 356 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ California and Virginia
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#59
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These tests are quite silly. If something like this ever happens in my life I would just flip a coin...
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2010-04-15
, 19:25
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Posts: 733 |
Thanked: 991 times |
Joined on Dec 2008
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#60
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Originally Posted by dkwatts
Will it Blend? That is the question.
from mylot.com
I was taking a philosophy class and our teacher asked us these three scenarios.
1: You are standing by the switch near a train track. The train is coming and the brakes are broken. The train is headed on a path where it will run over five people who are tied to the tracks, killing them. If you pull the switch, the train will switch direction and go on a track where it will kill 1 person who is tied to the tracks, but if you don't pull it he will be safe. You have no time to untie anyone. What do you do?
2: You are standing on a bridge over a train track. The train is coming, the brakes are broken, and there are 5 people tied to the tracks. There is a fat man on the bridge. This man is fat enough that if you pushed him, he would stop the train from running over the 5 people, but he would be killed. Do you push him?
3: Same situation as #2, but the fat man is standing on a trapdoor. You are standing by a lever that will open the trapdoor, he will fall onto the tracks, stop the train from running over the five people, and be killed. Do you pull it?
What would you do?
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Vínculos interesantes si nos visitas por primera vez (en inglés): New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
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Hola! Soy un Guía de Maemo!.
Vínculos interesantes si nos visitas por primera vez (en inglés): New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Si te puedo ayudar con cualquier otra cosa, sólo dilo!
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All times are GMT. The time now is 08:17.
The idea that inaction confers responsibility just as action does.
This flies in the face of one of the most important underpinnings of our concept of justice - mens rea.
This is why such laws are routinely struck down as being immoral, among other reasons.
The "good samaritan" concept is typically championed by those of a 'collectivist' persuasion, under the banner of 'social justice' - where the essential dignity of individual humanity is degraded into a statistical function, and people are no more than a herd to be administered with a view to balancing such a function so that an elitist societal ideal can be achieved.
Choose your bedfellows wisely