some source (in german, please excuse and feel free to translate yourself):

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/b...lt/992634.html

the article is about difficulties greeks and germans had with different weapon deals (my favourite topic btw). greeks blame germans of selling crap and germans blame greeks of paying crap. truth lies beneath that, nevertheless the article summs up some problems of greeks gettings paid what they ordered.

the idea of greek getting invaded by turkey is....ahhhh you made a joke, didn't get it, sorry....took it serious at first

as someone paid in US dollars in germany, I kind of hope the Euro destabilises. Means more purchasing power for me. WEEEEE!!!

But in all seriousness. The real problem here is simple. But just like in the US, people don't want to face the music.

The US economy was hit hard by banks foreclosing and credit deficit. These things were bad ideas to begin with. They shoudl fail. But our approach is to give them more money.

That's like buying a crappy car, and instead of just buying a better reliable one, you continue to but more money into the proven unreliable piece of crap. How is that a solution?

So the question with Greece is, do they really need a loan?

YES!

BUT, not to fix thier old busted car, but to buy a new reliable one. Sounds easy right?

2d

You can find my thoughts in my blog.

@demos,
You mean:
http://teemulehtinen.posterous.com/

Heh not much love to Greece from IS readers i see.

Thanks.
Interesting read, as were other recent post on your blog.

Yes, thanks for pointing out. I am currently stuck in tons of work, trying to write all kinds of materials and at the same time telling people from abroad that simplifications don't work.

Start from the military spending. Two months ago, as part of the safeguard package, Germans forced Greece to rebuy the leaking prototype sub that Greece already once returned as unseaworthy and French forced purchase of a new fregatte. All this at the same time as they are saying that Greece should be cutting cost.

The questions are much bigger than most of us imagine and answers more complex than what can be put in a short article.

I thought we got past the gun issue 10 posts ago as you didn't give any counter-argument to my suggestion that we can leave the guns out and the big picture doesn't change.

and I want to make sure: I refer Greeks as a nation, not every Greek personally. At least in finland we have over 75% idiots(read=don't have a clue and no intention to do research for getting a clue either) from every person entitled to vote....

That is an admirably philosophical attitude youre are taking with other peoples pensions. Considering that German pensions will take an enormous hit if Greece and the other PIGS default, what reaction would you find most appropriate from Germans nearing retirement?

A shrug of the shoulders and a pang of regret that the market didnt judge them productive enough? Or anger at these feckless foreigners ruining pensions they had worked so hard to build up?

This chart neatly illustrates why Europe has no choice but to pay up, Europes Web of Debt. Its mutually assured destruction.

Finally, I think its a bit weak to complain that in 2008 no-one knew that anything was amiss. There were many well publicised warnings about various PIGS economies (I am no expert on Greece but Ireland and Spain were well flagged as experiencing a bubble).

Surely this is not the forum for people to whine about not having done sufficient research.

I'm Swiss and i'm glad we didn't join the EU and the Euro.