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2010-06-01
, 20:13
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#62
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Originally Posted by pantera1989
First, it points out that they make available the open PORTIONS of the software on the device. That is--the Linux kernel itself and all the open portions. The closed-source portions are unavailable.
I don't know about the openness of the device. If you go to settings and About Product there is a paragraph about writing to Nokia to offer the source code on a CD. Has anyone tried asking for the code for the closed source drivers and packages.
And I think Nokia wouldn't just release the source to anyone because competitors like Android may use it. If you are a trusted source they might in my opinion.
Second, the whole POINT of open-source is that you WANT your competitors to use it as well. Any fixes and enhancements they participate into the kernel becomes YOUR fixes and enhancements as well.
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2010-06-01
, 20:15
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Posts: 11 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Norway
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#63
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Originally Posted by pantera1989
Just because Nokia "gives you" the source code doesn't make it a "effort" towards free software. If Nokia, however, license it under a free software license so everyone can use, copy, modify and distribute then we can get on starting. Company's now seem to hide behind the shell that is "open source". Everyone can open source something and stuff it with a license that doesn't allow you to do a damn thing, if you have guts you license it as real free software.
I don't know about the openness of the device. If you go to settings and About Product there is a paragraph about writing to Nokia to offer the source code on a CD. Has anyone tried asking for the code for the closed source drivers and packages.
And I think Nokia wouldn't just release the source to anyone because competitors like Android may use it. If you are a trusted source they might in my opinion.
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2010-06-01
, 20:17
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Posts: 543 |
Thanked: 151 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Germany
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#64
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I think Maemo 5 is way more stable then the first versions of this fresh "MeeGo" stuff. So what is so bad with Maemo 5? Why do you talk about a OS which is optimised for Netbooks at the moment?
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2010-06-01
, 20:34
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Posts: 577 |
Thanked: 699 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Malta
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#65
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Originally Posted by danramos
Yeah I guess so. I am not defending Nokia. I was merely asking if someone did try sending them a letter.
First, it points out that they make available the open PORTIONS of the software on the device. That is--the Linux kernel itself and all the open portions. The closed-source portions are unavailable.
Second, the whole POINT of open-source is that you WANT your competitors to use it as well. Any fixes and enhancements they participate into the kernel becomes YOUR fixes and enhancements as well.
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2010-06-01
, 21:10
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#66
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Originally Posted by woof404
Well, there is that too--but I don't think that's relevant here. The problem isn't that it's a ridiculous form of open-source, it's that, for almost the entire life of these products, there's a large portion of GPLv2 open-source code being held captive by some few, but critical, completely closed-source drivers and other programs you're forced to have as part of a system image. More and more of it became open-sourced, but I've got a feeling it has less to do with Nokia and more to do with the component manufacturers themselves providing the openness more and more. A lot of simple Nokia-made software on the tablets (like that god-awful media player) remained closed all while drivers were opening.
Just because Nokia "gives you" the source code doesn't make it a "effort" towards free software. If Nokia, however, license it under a free software license so everyone can use, copy, modify and distribute then we can get on starting. Company's now seem to hide behind the shell that is "open source". Everyone can open source something and stuff it with a license that doesn't allow you to do a damn thing, if you have guts you license it as real free software.
Originally Posted by Crogge
Of course Maemo 5 is more stable on your tablet--it was made for it and it's the FIFTH iteration to work on this similar OMAP architecture. Meego is only JUST having its first go (hah... get it, meego) at running on OMAP like this. The intention, if I understand it right, is to migrate to a distribution that will last longer-term. Maybe even possibly carrying Nokia's good-will and influence on to other hardware as well, by taking credit for getting a community around this new OS. If the latter is right, I might feel better about Nokia's position on this--since it'll be less about NOKIA locking you in to their product with closed drivers and software and more about the liberated operating system. THAT might change a lot of my cynicism in their brand right now. We'll see.
I think Maemo 5 is way more stable then the first versions of this fresh "MeeGo" stuff. So what is so bad with Maemo 5? Why do you talk about a OS which is optimised for Netbooks at the moment?
Originally Posted by pantera1989
Naw, it was already spelled out for you in the license. Especially the parts that point out that the Linux kernel itself is GPLv2 and portions of the OS image fall under other licenses and may not be openly available.
Yeah I guess so. I am not defending Nokia. I was merely asking if someone did try sending them a letter.
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2010-06-02
, 02:58
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#68
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Reading you it looks as if Nokia would be an enemy of openness of sorts. Yet...
What commercial handsets can you find in a shop more open than the Maemo devices?
How many companies can you list contributing more open source code and features? (Maemo/MeeGo + Symbian + Qt)
What commercial mobile platforms can you list with a more open setting and approach than the platforms where Nokia is involved? (MeeGo, Symbian)
Nokia is not perfect in terms of free software development but at least is trying hard investing a huge load of resources and publishing a huge load of new code available for anybody. Show us concrete alternatives that are succeeding commercially with a more open approach and we will seriously consider them (if we are not doing it already).
What commercial handsets can you find in a shop more open than the Maemo devices?
How many companies can you list contributing more open source code and features? (Maemo/MeeGo + Symbian + Qt)
What commercial mobile platforms can you list with a more open setting and approach than the platforms where Nokia is involved? (MeeGo, Symbian)
Nokia is not perfect in terms of free software development but at least is trying hard investing a huge load of resources and publishing a huge load of new code available for anybody. Show us concrete alternatives that are succeeding commercially with a more open approach and we will seriously consider them (if we are not doing it already).
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2010-06-02
, 04:03
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Posts: 466 |
Thanked: 418 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#69
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Originally Posted by qgil
So while this whole Maemo / MeeGo thing is going on, and the whole thread is titled "Whole new Linux ballgame" the real question is, how much of the stack is from Maemo and how much of it is from Moblin.
Reading you it looks as if Nokia would be an enemy of openness of sorts. Yet...
What commercial handsets can you find in a shop more open than the Maemo devices?
How many companies can you list contributing more open source code and features? (Maemo/MeeGo + Symbian + Qt)
What commercial mobile platforms can you list with a more open setting and approach than the platforms where Nokia is involved? (MeeGo, Symbian)
Nokia is not perfect in terms of free software development but at least is trying hard investing a huge load of resources and publishing a huge load of new code available for anybody. Show us concrete alternatives that are succeeding commercially with a more open approach and we will seriously consider them (if we are not doing it already).
Packaging is one thing, but did Maemo get completely scrapped in favor of the RPM based moblin and MeeGo is building of of what is essentially a Fedora Netbook remix? (I know it really isn't Fedora based per se, but Fedora is the closest to it from what I know). Which begs the other question, why ISN'T it based on Fedora or some other distribution. This is re-inventing the wheel... yet again?
So now we have yet another distribution that uses RPMs that aren't going to be readily installable in other RPM distributions. This is kind of dumb, I mean at least take something as a base and make it semi-compatible. I've found in my experience that 9 times out of 10 you can take an Ubuntu package and install it in Debian without problem, and vice versa. I can't say the same for Mandriva to Fedora to openSuSE. Just a thought. I'm sure that has been brought up before.
The other thing about RPM vs Deb that sucks is that with the N900 now, I can go to packages.debian.org, download SOME programs from the armel distribution and they'll work fine, if a bit strangely under the hildon interface.
I don't know of any other distributions that even have an armel version.
I kind of wonder about the Qt thing. Did Nokia purchase Trolltech simply because... well they couldn't buy out the 'owners' of GTK+? Since there really isn't one controlling company over it, I figured that's why the big move to Qt over GTK+. I mean hildon (which is the mobile gnome project) was the interface for Maemo until PR1.2 (still curious how much is still gtk and how much is now qt?)
Anyhow, just some thoughts. I am looking forward to MeeGo, though I'll most likely just install the Community edition or whatever on my phone and dual-boot. Now that is what I call OPEN!
Granted, there have been some work on getting Android to boot on the iPhone. But the main difference is that Nokia doesn't really care (at least I've never seen anything to suggest they have said "Oh you bastards, don't do that to <i>our</i> device!" Apple certainly have. I mean they have tried to get the DMCA changed to be even more restrictive so that jailbreaking your phone is illegal. Good thing we don't even have to do that
In conclusion... Yay, I can finally buy Angry Birds! Though the Ovi store is still weird.... I can see the 1.99 under Recommended, but if I go under Games, it just has the normal Angry Birds. It'd also be nice if the Ovi store had an icon no matter what page you were on, that showed that you have already have the particular package installed...not sure if that's possible without it scanning your phone though. I know under the 'my stuff' menu it shows the programs you've downloaded before... but after a flash, it still shows them there.....
now I'm just rambling
G'night everyone!slaapliedje
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2010-06-02
, 04:27
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#70
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Originally Posted by qgil
I'm not sure if there were any more or less open handsets, but i bet there are some, just not that popular, or maybe projects died, and i want to thank Nokia to looking forward for open source.
Reading you it looks as if Nokia would be an enemy of openness of sorts. Yet...
What commercial handsets can you find in a shop more open than the Maemo devices?
How many companies can you list contributing more open source code and features? (Maemo/MeeGo + Symbian + Qt)
What commercial mobile platforms can you list with a more open setting and approach than the platforms where Nokia is involved? (MeeGo, Symbian)
Nokia is not perfect in terms of free software development but at least is trying hard investing a huge load of resources and publishing a huge load of new code available for anybody. Show us concrete alternatives that are succeeding commercially with a more open approach and we will seriously consider them (if we are not doing it already).
But ...
There are a lot of companies contributing to open source, and i mean adding patches and source to kernel and so on, and even some of them don't get profit of it. While Nokia just bought QT, and as i see the contribution in QT and opening source of Symbian kinda helping Nokia as well, to make people and communities as ours to contribute in projects.
And going open source is not only when you distribution with open code and you can get root. Open source is also life style, especially when you have community, and on one hand Nokia workers are communicating with us (e.g. is you), but still we don't even have the maemo roadmap of development, we don't know what's going on, and i don't think that there are any decisions (which we also don't know) are based on our opinions at all. (i'm not demanding to do what we want, but to consider the end-user opinions is important). Also as Maemo open source, it's still comming to us as a big peace instead of parts and there are more and more.
My point is that to be open is not only to show us code.
And i'm not saying it as negative thing, I just say that it's not excuse "we are most open", and still there are a lot of thing Nokia has to learn.
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And I think Nokia wouldn't just release the source to anyone because competitors like Android may use it. If you are a trusted source they might in my opinion.