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gazza_d is offline gazza_d
2010-06-11 , 16:58
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#21
It seems to me that the basic issue with nokia is that they see each generation as a platform, much like a phone (oddly enough), and that they as a company have not grasped the concept of hardware and OS as being seperate entities, otherwise we would have had Maemo 4, and then 5 as an OS which would be installable on the different hardware platforms, much like general Linux is.

Also I agree with whoever said that Nokia need to move away from huge update releases to much smaller updates for individual modules and release them as they are available. Everyone else including MS do it.

Mer was a massive job for the community to pull off, and it seems to me like they nearly managed it, but the enormity of the task for the very limited resources meant that in the end it was too much. Lack of resource is publicly why Nokia have stopped building "Hacker Editions", so it's hard to see why a handful of dedicated volunteers working in their free time can pull it off.
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-06-11 , 16:58
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#22
Originally Posted by w00t View Post
But, do you equally think that those non-technical end-users would be flashing a totally new OS without knowing what it was? Because regardless of commercial support status, you aren't going to get an OTA update from Debian to Slackware.
You're right.. we're branching...

But I just have to point out: You did see the leaked PR1.2 fiasco, right?
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quipper8 is offline quipper8
2010-06-11 , 16:59
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#23
FWIW, i think they can iterate faster by cutting loose the last device and focusing on the current device, especially with the pace at which hardware has changed over the past two years.

I think with taking on partners with the meego thing and at least *trying* to be more open with meego stuff, we should hopefully see some more continuity after the infamous step 5
 

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flareup is offline flareup
2010-06-11 , 17:05
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#24
Originally Posted by hordeman View Post
My issue is this: when my n810 reaches the point where it can't run anything useful due to being too slow, there is nothing for me to upgrade to (as far as I am aware of). The n900's screen is too small, and I don't know of anything on the market that comes close to doing the same thing as close or as well as the n8x0.
Same here.

I came on board for the 770, kind of accepted the abandoning of it for the 8xx as it was the first step, but stopped short of going for the 9 because I'd learnt the lesson of nokia's device cycle and level of customer 'appreciation' by then.

so it's kind of funny seeing all the newbies going through it, but really does reflect so badly on nokia, who, in my humble opinion, had a market leading idea and form factor, which built up a fantastic community of developers and users around it, and they've just simply trashed it.

'good will' is a big, established part of business. i guess nokia itself is kind of immune to good will effects due to its hugeness - but you know, these things have a weird way of reaching critical mass in unexpected ways.

the continued jumping around of the os development just smacks of leaderless, headless chasing of some elusive goal.

I like the simplicity of nokias lower-end phones and will probably continue to use them as I just want my phone to be as small as possible and be 'a phone', but like the poster I've quoted, I'll be at a loss to replace my 800 when the time sadly soon comes
 

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gazza_d is offline gazza_d
2010-06-11 , 17:30
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#25
Originally Posted by flareup View Post

so it's kind of funny seeing all the newbies going through it, but really does reflect so badly on nokia, who, in my humble opinion, had a market leading idea and form factor, which built up a fantastic community of developers and users around it, and they've just simply trashed it.
when you look at the likes of the Ipad, and the Dell streak, and the other tablets coming onto market such as Archos, you realise how ahead of the game Nokia was, certainly with the N8x0s, and I agree that they have just wasted their lead. If Nokia had given the N8x0 a decent midlife refresh of the OS, and pushed it more, and had a bit more of an incremental step towards maemo5, then I think that they would have had the tablet market eating out of their hand.
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skalogre is offline skalogre
2010-06-11 , 17:37
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#26
Originally Posted by gazza_d View Post
when you look at the likes of the Ipad, and the Dell streak, and the other tablets coming onto market such as Archos, you realise how ahead of the game Nokia was, certainly with the N8x0s, and I agree that they have just wasted their lead. If Nokia had given the N8x0 a decent midlife refresh of the OS, and pushed it more, and had a bit more of an incremental step towards maemo5, then I think that they would have had the tablet market eating out of their hand.
It may sound like a bit of a cop-out but at least in the USA, it is very difficult for anyone other than Apple to "create" a market segment like that. Nokia just does not have the same allure to the press and, would seem, sufficient understanding of what drives consumers to such things - i.e. make them buy something they did not know they needed .
Regrettably, seeing how much of the tech press and major software companies reside in the USA, it means that it would have been an uphill battle. I would speculate that in many ways the prior Maemo devices were as much about feeling out the market as much as getting a niche device out. They were well-received but only in certain circles, it would seem.
I am certain that did colour how Maemo 5 and the break later to MeeGo came about. I wouldn't say desperation, it is the wrong word. Perhaps frustration with seeing others getting a hold of a market that could have been cornered years ago.
Last edited by skalogre; 2010-06-11 at 17:40.
 

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PradaBrada is offline PradaBrada
2010-06-11 , 17:52
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#27
Originally Posted by Venemo View Post
As I said in this thread also, I completely agree with Texrat on this stuff.
I also expressed my opinion in a comment on his blog.

Something else:

What I don't really understand is why does Nokia hold to their closed-source stuff so much?
I mean, they could do as Intel already does.

Their money come from hardware sales, so they could afford to give out the software freely.
  • A competitor would use the product for their own advantage? Great! More people using Nokia software, more apps for Nokia devices! Why is this a problem?
  • If the drivers would be open source, WHAT would happen? Other people could easily port and use different OS's, and that could be a selling point. Also, the manufacturer of my laptop doesn't care what OS I install on it. Why does Nokia?
  • Closed-source components - what's the point? They failed to obey their own UI specification and didn't "hildonize" their own apps - there would be people willing to correct this for free... but NOOOOOOO...
  • About Flash: I don't really care about it, but if it is WORKING (as demonstrated by Adobe), why don't they include it in an update? It would increase sales, and I fail to see why is that good for them.
  • 4 words: Release early, release often - why can't they update the apps and packages on the device independently? The apt package manager could handle that
It seems to me that they don't really want to sell one of their product... which is financially bad for them, so... why?
[insult deleted by moderator]

100% agreed with this and Texrat
Last edited by Texrat; 2010-06-11 at 18:23. Reason: deledted insult
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-11 , 18:23
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#28
PradaBrada, on one hand I appreciate the agreement, but I'm looking for alignment too. That means don't inject insults into the conversation. Thanks.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-11 , 18:28
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#29
Originally Posted by w00t View Post
I'd like to start with an open disclaimer and warning that, while I agree that mistakes have been made, I think the overall tone of Texrat's post was far too negative. It's easy to criticize, to point out mistakes, and to cast blame. It's a lot harder to step up to the plate, acknowledge failure, and put positive energy into making the right thing happen.
True, but juxtapose that against previous articles, especially the one for PR1.1 (which I referenced) and you'll see I'm positive when it's called for and likewise negative when appropriate.

That said, I did say I was still cautiously optimistic.

Every once in a while I need to pause from the cheerleading and apply a spanking where it's needed. I don't think a soft-pedal was the right approach for that article.
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PradaBrada is offline PradaBrada
2010-06-11 , 18:39
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#30
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
PradaBrada, on one hand I appreciate the agreement, but I'm looking for alignment too. That means don't inject insults into the conversation. Thanks.
No problem, you're the mod, you make the rules.

In any case Nokia seriously needs to rethink some of their strategies.
 

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