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2007-09-05
, 18:18
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#12
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Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
It appears there is no Bluetooth support whatsoever, which seems a bit odd as it rules out A2DP and keyboard support. Maybe next year.
Does the iPod touch have a microphone or support bluetooth keyboard?
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2007-09-05
, 18:24
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Posts: 165 |
Thanked: 9 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#13
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Well, basically this appears to be the iPhone with the GSM radio removed (and an upgraded memory chip in the 16GB version). This is all well and good for them, though I suspect the price overlap between the Touch and Classic will cause Classic sales to lag, especially since the Touch's screen is bigger.
I admit the casual user, one who is especially into buying off iTunes, will love this thing (assuming they can afford it). I have to say after trying the N800's built-in Rhapsody client and 30-day trial subscription, it's actually quite slick, and if someone were into the Rhapsody model (pay $15/month for unlimited streaming, pay for each song you actually download) I think the N800 makes a better player. It's obviously better than the Zune, anyway.
But as people keep saying, the N800 isn't just a music player. It's also not just a web browser. It's got Skype. The Flash plugin is slow and somewhat lame, but it works, and you can go straight to YouTube. And there are 3rd party apps. I can connect to any IM service I want with Pidgin. My calendar syncs directly to Google Calendar. There's several ways to listen to podcasts w/o desktop intervention (it's not clear whether the iPod Touch can handle this). And I can build my own apps, which is incredibly geeky of me, but there you go.
Sure, for the casual US user, the iPod Touch may be the way to go. (How much market penetration does the N800 really have in the US anyway?) But the N800 still has way more capability and potential, especially if Apple continues to close off 3rd party development.
I admit the casual user, one who is especially into buying off iTunes, will love this thing (assuming they can afford it). I have to say after trying the N800's built-in Rhapsody client and 30-day trial subscription, it's actually quite slick, and if someone were into the Rhapsody model (pay $15/month for unlimited streaming, pay for each song you actually download) I think the N800 makes a better player. It's obviously better than the Zune, anyway.
But as people keep saying, the N800 isn't just a music player. It's also not just a web browser. It's got Skype. The Flash plugin is slow and somewhat lame, but it works, and you can go straight to YouTube. And there are 3rd party apps. I can connect to any IM service I want with Pidgin. My calendar syncs directly to Google Calendar. There's several ways to listen to podcasts w/o desktop intervention (it's not clear whether the iPod Touch can handle this). And I can build my own apps, which is incredibly geeky of me, but there you go.
Sure, for the casual US user, the iPod Touch may be the way to go. (How much market penetration does the N800 really have in the US anyway?) But the N800 still has way more capability and potential, especially if Apple continues to close off 3rd party development.
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2007-09-05
, 18:35
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#14
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Originally Posted by Traecer
True, the N800 offers a lot more than the iPod but the potential WORLDWIDE market that was available to Nokia, within which to sell a device offering media playing capabilities and internet browsing, has all but disappeared with the launch of the iPod Touch.
Sure, for the casual US user, the iPod Touch may be the way to go. (How much market penetration does the N800 really have in the US anyway?) But the N800 still has way more capability and potential, especially if Apple continues to close off 3rd party development.
Nokia now need to focus on those customers who want more than just browsing functionality, those customers who want effectively a laptop replacement, or even as a smartphone companion (PDA etc.). Nokia have to rethink their approach and start embracing other non-internet based functionality as they've just lost access to the internet browsing only market (sewn up by the iPod Touch, I predict). If Nokia persist with their blinkered attitude towards the Internet Tablets, they may as well give up - if people want to browse the internet with a portable device, they'll get an iPod Touch.
Nokia must begin offering more compelling functionality and design... it's quite breathtaking to see how quickly Apple have been able to eat Nokias lunch.
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2007-09-05
, 18:35
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Posts: 165 |
Thanked: 9 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#15
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Originally Posted by SamAdam
I have to stop you there: and just where is this "iPhone toolchain" of which you speak? Where are these "third-party iPhone applications" just springing up everywhere from garden-variety code hackers? I hope you're not referring to the various hacks that have appeared? Yeah, the N800 has problems like any device, but there is an official, freely available (open source even) development kit, and several different ways to write applications for it. The iPhone/iPod Touch has...Safari web apps. That you can't even install on the device itself; they have to be hosted. Or stuffed into a bookmarklet. OK, whatever.
thank you for saying more eloquently what I was trying to say. Hackers flock to what people own, and I see all the hackers going to this especially because it uses the iPhone toolchain they have already developed.
In truth, I know why Apple has refused to open an SDK for the iPhone. They say it's for stability, but in reality it's so people won't write viruses for it. That's fine if they want to do that, but that doesn't make me want to use it as my carryaround Internet device.
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2007-09-05
, 18:44
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Posts: 165 |
Thanked: 9 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#16
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
I completely agree with you, and not just with the advent of the iPod Touch: the whole Nokia N-series' market is in danger of being eaten by Apple now. Which is rather sad; Nokia apparently can't seem to market well outside of Europe, and even then faces stiff competition (even without the iPhone). Nokia's design could use some work too; Symbian's interface is ugly in comparison to most UIs except Palm's, and though I like Maemo's interface overall, things like the Media Player and Image viewer inspire utter boredom.
True, the N800 offers a lot more than the iPod but the potential WORLDWIDE market that was available to Nokia, within which to sell a device offering media playing capabilities and internet browsing, has all but disappeared with the launch of the iPod Touch.
Nokia now need to focus on those customers who want more than just browsing functionality, those customers who want effectively a laptop replacement. Nokia have to rethink their approach and start embracing other non-internet based functionality as they've just lost access to the internet browsing only market (sewn up by the iPod Touch, I predict). If Nokia persist with their blinkered attitude towards the Internet Tablets, they may as well give up - if people want to browse the internet with a portable device, they'll get an iPod Touch.
Nokia must begin offering compelling functionality and design... it's quite breathtaking to see how quickly Apple have been able to eat Nokias lunch.
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2007-09-05
, 18:59
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Posts: 2,669 |
Thanked: 2,555 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
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#17
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The one and only reason why this is making any waves at all is because it's Apple. That's it, that's all. I want an open internet future, not one filled with DRM that requires hacks to install stuff all the time. I want things less locked down. Why bother waiting for someone to put an alternative OS on it when you have something with an alternative OS already on it now? The only real reason to buy something from Apple is because you like their interfaces and GUIs, but if you're just going to install an alternative OS on it anyways...
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2007-09-05
, 19:00
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#18
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Originally Posted by .wo
Apple also seem to have many of the internet websites in their pocket - every time there is a new app, hack or someone at Apple sneezes it gets covered by just about every news site and blog on the planet. The iPod Touch is front page on the BBC News site for crying out loud.
I am happy that I didn't buy the N800. iPod Touch or iPhone, they will most likely become *the* portable internet devices. The list of native apps is growing, installing them has become quite comfortable. And sooner or later somebody will even manage to put an alternative OS on them, just because it can be done.
I am happy, mobile internet's future has become a lot brighter today.
Compare and contrast that with Nokia, who barely marketed the N800 at all and any coverage they do get is mostly derisory. This is precisely why I think Apple now have the "internet browsing" market sewn up, they have the hardware, functionality and UI that everybody wants and they have no problem letting people know about it.
Nokia need to learn so many lessons, so very quickly.
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2007-09-05
, 19:02
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Posts: 2 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#19
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it all depends what you are looking for in a device.
I want a device which lets me browse the web, including having the ability to save files for later use. I don't think the Ipod touch can do this.
Furthermore, I like the ability to write stuff on the go, without having to haul a laptop with me.
And there is the email, of course.
For me, the NIT functions as a small laptop; versitalility is the key.
And yes; is also plays music and videos.
I want a device which lets me browse the web, including having the ability to save files for later use. I don't think the Ipod touch can do this.
Furthermore, I like the ability to write stuff on the go, without having to haul a laptop with me.
And there is the email, of course.
For me, the NIT functions as a small laptop; versitalility is the key.
And yes; is also plays music and videos.
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2007-09-05
, 19:07
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#20
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Originally Posted by zerojay
I agree with you... but we're a tiny minority. And .wo is a prime example of people who yesterday might have bought a Nokia Internet Tablet, but tomorrow will now buy Apple.
The one and only reason why this is making any waves at all is because it's Apple. That's it, that's all. I want an open internet future, not one filled with DRM that requires hacks to install stuff all the time. I want things less locked down. Why bother waiting for someone to put an alternative OS on it when you have something with an alternative OS already on it now? The only real reason to buy something from Apple is because you like their interfaces and GUIs, but if you're just going to install an alternative OS on it anyways...
The open-ness of the Nokia platform appeals to only a tiny number of people compared to those that will buy Apple - those that just want to play music and video with a bit of web browsing don't care about installing other apps or hacking with a shell.
The question is: can Nokia compete with Apple and engage the majority of potential customers in this "internet browsing" market, or should it accept it will only ever appeal to the Geek market? Is the Geek market large enough to sustain Nokia? Is this experiment doomed to failure now that Apple have taken the concept, lost the open nature but still rubbed Nokias face in it?
iPod Touch will be available in 8GB and 16GB capacities, $299 and $399 respectively, worldwide within a month. YouTube supported in the same way it is on the iPhone. Full integration with the iPhone music store.
Nokia have everything to compete with this - Ovi for the music store, the platform and the browser, they just don't have the design kudos or the marketing chutzpa (OPK the Finnish chairman of Nokia isn't even on the same planet as Jobs when it comes to announcing products - it's sometimes hard to tell if OPK is even alive).